Open Thread: GEOS Discussion

Nope, not a bad memory, just a different GEOS aus school. Our classes always averaged low numbers with numbers up to 16-17 in really busy periods. We had a great school and our manager was also good. Sorry you didn't have it the same way.

Back to GEOS Japan.. :)

I know that schools have less students than a year ago...
I saw an excel file which had the student numbers in each school for the last 10 or 12 months... It's not looking good. I don't know about sign ups this month though.
There are a FEW schools who actually have higher numbers than before, but it is rare and doesn't cover the gap mentioned before.

I know many teachers have been leaving GEOS, and I think this month will be the worst...
With the new school year just days away and the start of many new teaching positions, I presume we will see a large number of walk outs in the next 20 days... I think GEOS won't have a big problem getting new hires, many people are in need of a visa, which GEOS provides, and besides, if you are unemployed maybe they can offer you a couple of months pay before they go under, if they go under... I personally think they will just start reorganizing, which is what they should have done already.
Schools which are not profitable should move their schedules around... work 3 days a week instead of 5, instead of "semi full-time teachers" who work 29.5hours maybe they should just get REAL semi full-time teachers who work from 16:00 to 22:00 (which is most of us already do anyway!).

As always, I sincerely doubt they will pay late, i presume this will only happen at the very end. If that is now, then... So be it.

I know that schools have less students than a year ago...
I saw an excel file which had the student numbers in each school for the last 10 or 12 months... It's not looking good. I don't know about sign ups this month though.
There are a FEW schools who actually have higher numbers than before, but it is rare and doesn't cover the gap mentioned before.

I know many teachers have been leaving GEOS, and I think this month will be the worst...
With the new school year just days away and the start of many new teaching positions, I presume we will see a large number of walk outs in the next 20 days... I think GEOS won't have a big problem getting new hires, many people are in need of a visa, which GEOS provides, and besides, if you are unemployed maybe they can offer you a couple of months pay before they go under, if they go under... I personally think they will just start reorganizing, which is what they should have done already.
Schools which are not profitable should move their schedules around... work 3 days a week instead of 5, instead of "semi full-time teachers" who work 29.5hours maybe they should just get REAL semi full-time teachers who work from 16:00 to 22:00 (which is most of us already do anyway!).

...and the award for "state the fucking obvious" goes to....

As always, I sincerely doubt they will pay late

...and the award for misplaced overconfidence...

Schools which are not profitable should move their schedules

How about to Australia? I heard they have some free space.

pay late, i presume this will only happen at the very end.

...and the end is nigh my friend. Wednesday I think.

Ask your manager for the tassei retsujun. It'll highlight the dire sign up rates throughout the region.

This guy was recently conducting interviews for GEOS Childrens in Utsunomiya

I asked about a part time role because of the bad press I wanted to maintain my other part time jobs just in case. He have me some spiel about how great GEOS children is doing and how reprehensible the online forums are. Then turned around and said he would cancel because GEOS doesn't allow teachers to have any other work. I was trying to talk my way out of the interview anyway and just to see what they would say. But I didn't particularly like his approach or the restrictiveness of not allowing any part time jobs, so in protest I am posting his info here.

Cheers,

John Liu
Native Teacher Trainer
tel: 045-271-2718
fax: 045-271-2710

Dude - that's uncalled for. Etiquette and all that.

There is a reason I said the closing would have been smooth and easy

What? The 2 students enrolled there were due to finish next week?

Actually I think you might be close to right based on what the other guy said. Think about it if April is just around the corner and the school had a lot of kids I bet a lot of them would be finishing. I could be wrong but only they know I guess.
Damn it sucks details are always so sketchy here due to fear of head office.

Yeah from what I've seen on this forum and off there's not much in the way of brains behind the GEOS business method.

Trying to throw someone under the bus or just you know that school is in a similar situation?

Tenjin school is in BIG trouble.

Fran quit. Scott is going to quit. Stephen is a dick.

Also, most of the teachers in Nagasaki prefecture quit. One pretended to be hospitalized so get out asap.

Tell us more! Seriously, people need to have a heads up because the d-heads at GEOS Japan and the managers will not tell anyone.

People on here that are insiders for GEOS Canada...Please keep posting and I will add my knowledge, as best I can without becoming known. We can assist each other because GEOS will not.

How high up did that "looking for a buyer" info come from? Wonder if any managers have heard about it in NA...

If you know Stephen, ask him about what he has heard from the inside...9 years in he should know plenty and have the contacts to know more.

Anyone know of a Rita Chen? Supposedly she is the marketing honcho for GEOS NA. She used to work at GEOS , but might have had inside knowledge of Mike the NY manager/ NA chief leaving for a competitor. I heard she is now at GEOS Montreal under Uri Carnat, manager/ NA VP. Heard rumors he was trying to make GEOS Montreal the marketing center, so the NA marketing chief (Rita) is there. Maybe someone should give her a call and see what's up. I saw on another board she was re-iterating the Special K propaganda that "nothing is wrong" last December. Conveniently, she disappeared once the Aussie schools collapsed. Wonder if she has jumped ship, or just helping it sink?

Montreal Newsletter Oct 09 has photo and text:
"Hi! My name is Rita Chen and I am the Regional Marketing Coordinator for GEOS North America. I'm based in Montreal but I am actually responsible for all 12 schools in North America.
My family background is Taiwanese but I was born and raised in Toronto, Canada. When I was younger I didn't travel much but after I graduated from university, I moved to Tokyo, Japan to be an English teacher for GEOS. I enjoyed Japan so much that I ended up staying for 3 & a half years! While I was in GEOS Japan, I went from being a teacher to working in Tokyo's Head Office.
In 2008, I was given the opportunity to transfer to GEOS North America. I was first placed in GEOS New York school and then, after a year, I moved to Montreal. I have been in Montreal for 3 months now and I love it here! It amazes me how the city is so bilingual - you can find both French and English influenced buildings, signs, and monuments; and people are fluent in both French and English. I am studying French at GEOS Montreal right now so I one day hope to be able to speak French like that too!
My hobbies are dancing, cooking, singing, travelling, and studying languages. I can speak Chinese Mandarin and Japanese in addition to English. As I mentioned earlier, I am taking French classes. In addition, I also study Korean on Saturdays. It's a tough schedule but my classes are fun so I'm enjoying myself!
I love meeting new people so if you're ever in GEOS Montreal, please drop by the office and say "Hi"! I look forward to meeting you!"

Now, don't know if she is under Uri but Rita seems to have a connection with a Libyan education agent operating out of the UK and out of Libya - have a gander (Canadian joke!) at LIBES e-services on:

http://www.lbes.net/lbes_eservices.htm

where she presents as a reference . GEOS NA also splatters across a banner at the foot of the Libyan website.

You know, GEOS has a surprise for us every day.

Libya? Explains why Craigslist in Montreal had a few postings for a teaching job in Libya from GEOS Montreal.

I do not have much, but I heard through the grapevine that Rita Chen, NA marketing big chief ;-) is working out of Montreal, but they are keeping it very secretive. What the heck?! Like it is the CIA, or something. Seriously, they make every effort to not show she is there and GEOS is weird when you call them asking for her. What gives? Maybe she knows things are collapsing and doesn't want the responsibility...Leave suddenly?

Stephen is a great guy, one of the nicest and most genuine people i met over in Japan

Thanks for that Stephen.

Frankly he's wasted on GEOS.

Well dust off your resume then.

Sounds like a DEMOTION to me.

I think GEOS likes to refer to these moves of career progression as "lateral promotions".

Can anyone explain why he lists himself as the "VP North American Operations" from only February 2009 to May 2009? Kind of short, don't you think? And then his new title is "Regional Director."

That's becuase Mike (previous Manager of NY) was the Head honcho. No idea when Mike actually left (July/August 2009??), but perhaps he assumed the big title of Regional Director as maybe VP too low in status.

Can anyone explain why he lists himself as the "VP North American Operations" from only February 2009 to May 2009? Kind of short, don't you think? And then his new title is "Regional Director."

or.... when the NA house does finally fall he wants to have the title of Director so that he can be held financially liable by the adminstrators?

Ahhh, that would make sense why all the others are moving to the conveniently termed "Operations Coordinator." haha

What kind of "spy"? Further details or most will not believe you on this board.

Could this be why Uri Carnat is suddenly out of the country, yet still the manager of GEOS Montreal? Visiting Mr. K for the big announcement preparations? We need more info...

April 6th is the day after Easter Monday. GEOS NA schools are most likely closed on April 5th for the holiday, so it is possible.

Do not believe the April 6th post until we have more concrete info. Sounds like the guy who said "this Friday" a couple of times. Probably a GEOS management troll...

Do not believe the April 6th post until we have more concrete info

I understand your scepticism. All this anonymity is hard to believe at times.
But let's just say this.....

Could this be why Uri Carnat is suddenly out of the country, yet still the manager of GEOS Montreal? Visiting Mr. K for the big announcement preparations?

is right on the money.

is right on the money.

Can you give us any other detail to support such a strong assertion? We respect your need to be careful, bit we need something more to support this statement.

We are interested in what you have to say. ;-)

He would tell his staff...But also probably instruct them not to say exactly where and what he is doing. Usually you would just get a "he is not in at the moment/ out of town on business, can I take a message." They might say he is in Japan, of someone asks. If he is, then something is up. But who knows...

Their GEOS LA school manager, Ashlee Breitman, only graduated from university in 2007! She doesn't even have enough years teaching/ out of school for most credible teaching positions, let alone a manager position. The other one up and left.

The events unfolding in GEOS NA are exactly the same as what occured before GEOS Australia went into administration.

1) Experienced top management leaving.
2) Replaced by "yes men" inexperienced filler managers.
3) Huge money transfers back to the GEOS Japan Vacuum.
4) Massive student enrollment discounts offered.
5) Unsustainable high agent commissions offered to stem the loss of brand confidence.
6) Almost daily internet based meetings with a ranting Mr K demanding the lazy workers work harder and make more money.

The parallels are undeniable and it will be impossible for this second cash cow for GEOS Japan to remain afloat.
The salaries of GEOS Japan staff have drained Australia and now are eating into the profits of NA. Its domestic market stagnated about 10 years ago and is now in terminable decline and now its global presence is being bled dry to try to salvage something. There are plenty of decent, well run ELT companies that NA workers should defect to. Staying on, for any reason, is madness.

My prediction - Its global regions will have been forced into bankruptcy or sold off within 12 months. GEOS Japan will then focus on keeping the few profitable schools open within its domestic regions (it is currently undergoing a steady downsizing program from 500 to 150 -please correct if I'm wrong) and surrender dominance to its one time competitors AEON and ECC. Not a pretty sight.

Uri Carnat, from 10/07 GEOS Montreal Newsletter....

"In the news, Uri Carnat, our school manager, is the proud father of a baby boy named Benjamin Charles! Benjamin is Uri’s second child, but first boy. We are all very excited for this wonderful parent! "

I love working for GEOS. I love my managers. I love everything......

Some help needed, please, to solve an argument here at our school. In your opinions, in terms of height, is Montreal Uri very short or just short?

I know many people qualify Toronto that way either because many people outside of NA have never heard of Toronto or they think it's in the US.

is Montreal Uri very short or just short?

Neither - he's just a mini Mr Special K.... ie a fine gentlemen and an integral part of the GEOS Global Community. Regional Director goddammit!

You are right, the Aussie fee protection system is probably way ahead of Canada. Canada always trails in everything, and usually just copies the U.S., England, or Australia a few years later.

I do not know about the U.S. per se, although I assume it is much more strict/ regulated under ACCET, the governing body. Visas are more strictly enforced there, but it might depend on the state. I know Languages Canada was trying to create a fee-protection system, but we all know Languages Canada is pretty slow and useless sometimes. When a large Japanese (I believe) student agency went bankrupt, they did get several schools to take in the students who lost a lot of money pre-paid tuition. However, I think the schools that honored the student contracts might not have received any money. I really do not think LC had funds from a fee protection system in place to support that decision.

I DO know Special K drained money from Montreal and Vancouver last year, as a prelude to the problems in Australia. And I believe LC has been in contact with GEOS Canada over the recent situation, but do not expect GEOS to tell them anything of value and LC to have any enforcement ability.

Toronto: the most over-rated city in the world, and everyone knows it...

Mini Special K for Uri Carnat is a good one. We also call him Napolean at the school.

Let's just say I am out of this joint in May and damn pleased. Leaving early, not honouring my full contract (convenient excuse in tow), and getting the heck out. Using my degree for a real job and company.

Enjoy everyone!

Was the AUS$11,000 "loaned" to GEOS Montreal directly or to GEOS Canada?

I heard GEOS Montreal had problems paying the rent at one point.

While Australia is currently operating a Trust Assurance scheme to support students adrift because of school closeures, everything in the garden is not rosy. School operators, faced with a plethora of other institutions going belly-up, are unhappy with having to pick up the pieces for free. Have a look at the WA GEOS situation through the eyes of WAPETIA -

"... when voluntary liquidators appointed by GEOS Perth, the owner of St Mark’s English Language School in Highgate close to the city centre, closed the school’s doors at on 1 February, over 1000 present and future English Language students could have faced a bleak future.

A total of over 8000 weeks of tuition worth an estimated $2.4 million were put in doubt by the closure, not just inconveniencing the students, but also potentially damaging Perth and Australia’s reputation as a location for International English language learning.

Fortunately, industry peak bodies, the Western Australian Private Education and Training Industry Association (WAPETIA) and the WA branch of English Australia were prepared, and enacted their Tuition Assurance Schemes, the initiatives to protect the tuition fees of international students in their care.

In the 5 weeks since the school’s sudden demise, with around 90% of the affected students have been relocated free of charge to other International English Language schools across Perth, minimising disruption to their tuition, and according to WAPETIA Chair Janelle Dawson, protecting the reputation of the International Education sector in WA.

“All students who had wished to be relocated had now been offered places, with more than 6000 weeks of English Language tuition valued at around $1.8 million pledged by WAPETIA and EA member schools,” said Miss Dawson."
rehttp://www.wapetia.org.au/geos.htmlf:

Now, while WAPETIA, see this as a success story, from a pure accounting perepective it simply represents the transfer of almost $2 million to GEOS Japan, as the other Perth Colleges mopped up services pre-paid to GEOS Japan. And in the Australian college sector there is a deal of unquiet about this free Tuition Assurance model. Have a look at a comment about tuition assurance from Perthnow, following the GEOS St Marks cloe down:

"Jim of Perth Posted at 5:26 AM January 31, 2010
Hi NB. So, say you are the owner of a garage and car repair shop. And then one of your competitors down the road called Meridien Auto Service or Sterling Perth or St Marks Smash or something like that gets into financial difficulties and closes. And the government says "hey, take the cars from there and fix them for free, OK?." And you say "OK, no problem, it's a pleasure, I'll do that for free." And this is the business model we have imposed on one of our biggest export industries??? Yah, in a bucket!With these education enterprises accepting big sums of money from kids upfront, we need proactive, pre-emptive monitoring of the enterprises' heath and not some post-disaster band aids. Or is it all too hard???"
ref: http://www.perthnow.com.au (and search for GEOS)

IN Australia, the just released Baird Report on the Australian international education sector neatly side-steps any idea of trust fund warehousing of pre-paid tuition fees in favour of the current "voluntary model". It can be argued that GEOS NZ prepaids being in a Walker Waylan administered trust fund saved GEOS NZ students from the fate of their Australian chums. And actually left some value in the GEOS NZ shell.

Domino is correct in comments about possible sale of the Australian schools. Prior to the collapse there was some planning by GEOS Japan to sell out/get out of Australia by selling off schools March/April 2010 on. But, the 07 to 09 loans and capital/real estate stripouts to Japan just tore any real value out of the Australian shells - which would have been revealed when due dillegences were carried out by prospective buyers. The true values of the Aus schools has been revealed during the liquidation process - a friend described the value to me as being "half of bugger all". And that's likely to be the case of any GEOS school sale in any quarter - rented buildings, physical assets of little value at auction, zero goodwill, and a package of debts attached. (Wonder what was actually paid for NZ GEOS???)

Meanwhile EY? Are they writing the odd letter to Canada about a few bucks? Maybe. But now they will likely be concentrating on the locals - Directors and de facto directors. The wheels in liquidation grins slow but sure.

Is Geos payday today or tomorrow?

Tomorrow.

Currently, all GEOS schools outside of the mother country are supported by the combination of GEOS agents and "International" agents

No shit Sherlock..... agents are the lifeblood for the entire industry.

Mind you, some of the so called international agents are based in Japan.

Not true - GEOS have their own overseas study department (GIEA) in Japan. Other agents are not used within Japan.

If GEOS NA were to be purchased, the purchaser had better make sure he/she would still be able to suck on the GEOS Agent nipple

Of course...

Looking at the E&Y report it simply states the loan was to Canada. The total value of loans owing to Perth is $4 071 119. E&Y could not give a breakdown of who owes what as the loans were all consolidated by Australia Holdings. Only the books of Australia Holdings will show how much Europe, NA, Asia, NZ and other Australian schools owe Perth. Were these interest bearing loans?

The only loans that have not been consolidated and this may be becuase they were current in this financial year total $161 684, which includes the $11 000 lent to Canada. Only the books of AH will show the total owing by Canada.

The report also shows the profit of this college for the previous three years as $3 343 485. That's an average profit of $1m per annum.

It would be nice to know what the profits of the other regions are, but I would guess there are none otherwise they would surely have repaid their loans?

Looking at previous posts, it was either a similar situation that led to the GFC or one cunning CEO to strip the cash cows and then walk away. Based on the media release saying Japan had no idea of what went wrong and were not involved in the Management of Australia, I will opt for the latter.

Often when head office takes holidays they don't inform the rest of the staff. I don't know why they insist on this policy of secrecy when it comes to their holidays but they do.

PS Pay day isn't until tomorrow 13:52 idiot.

Yes, agents talk. The following is a google translation so any corrections are welcome. (I've never taught in Japan, so I don't speak or read Japanese...)

REF http://www.top-notch.biz/node/49
The bigger schools in Australia GEOS schools everywhere, but they were popular with a solid split-level, it seems many students are confused by the difference in the environment of the school where transfers. 。 . 。

GEOSは日本の英会話学校を筆頭に、オーストラリア以外の国にもたくさんの語学学校を運営しているので、そちらのほうも心配です。 GEOS is the largest English school in Japan, so that many language schools to operate outside Australia, you better worry about there.

そんな中、１つ朗報が入ってきました。 During meantime, the good news came in one. GEOSニュージーランドでは、2月19日付けのレターで、GEOSニュージーランドの校長が、ニュージーランドにあるGEOS3校（オークランド、ウエリントン、クライストチャーチ）をGEOSから買い取り、新しいニュージーランドの会社オーナーとしてこれまで通り留学生の受入をしていく、と発表しました。 GEOS In New Zealand, February 19 letter dated, GEOS is principal of New Zealand, in New Zealand schools GEOS3 (Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch) to purchase from GEOS and acceptance of students as far as the owner of a new New Zealand company then we announced it. 今後、学校の名前が変わるのかどうかは不明ですが、少なくとも、オーストラリアの二の舞は免れて良かったです。 Future whether to change the name of the school is unknown, at least, spared a repeat of Australia is good.

Fumi

To: Anyone thinking about the Montreal ACO Job
Over the past 3 years in the Academic (sorry) Coordinators;s job - Joy, then Andrea, then Meehye, now you!

Testament to the superior skills of the average GEOS manager's English rather than the teacher I'd say. I wonder if Scotty was ever given the choice as to whether he wanted his picture on the website?

Nice to see another insider on here...from not to far away. ;-)

Yes, there have been three ACs at GEOS Montreal in three years. But what you didn't mentioned, there was NO AC for quite a long time. The GEOS Montreal manager, Uri Carnat, was too cheap to hire one, even thought it is mandated by Languages Canada and any respectful sense of a school! He actually thought he could save money (one of many "bright-idea" ways) by not hiring one for as long as possible, and putting all the work on other staff and teachers...unpaid extras, of course. Classic GEOS mentality.

Also important to know, Andrea never filled her contract...She was probably only there for, oh, maybe six months...MeeHye, well, she lasted less than a year...neither filled their required yearly contracts and both are fresh-faced out of university. Go figure.