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My God, What Have We Done?
Those are the infamous words of Bob Lewis, co-pilot of the Enola Gay, following the world's first use of a nuclear weapon. What have we done, indeed.
Sixty-five years on, the dropping of the bombs is still being debated, and there are persuasive arguments to be made for and against.
When we talk about the strategy and reasoning behind dropping the bombs we ignore the all important human factor in the world's first use of nuclear weapons-- the unspeakable horror of the attack. The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki instantly wiped out hundreds of thousands of lives and the suffering of the survivors continues to this day.
As Howard Zinn notes, the use of nuclear weapons was made possible through years of dehumanizing the enemy that prepared the public for the use of such weapons. When the enemy isn't seen as human, it's easy to dismiss their deaths as necessary.
One aspect of WWII that is forgotten is that at Casablanca in 1943, the Allies made the deliberate and systematic targeting of civilian populations in Germany and Japan a part of their bombing campaign. Even if you believe the war to be a just and righteous war, how does the indiscriminate bombing of civilians make one righteous? How does one justify such a thing?
I ask this question because Hiroshima wasn't a military target and I'm not convinced that that not using the bomb would have resulted in the deaths of half a million or a million more Allied soldiers. I believe history will not be kind to the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki and ultimately see them acts of terrorism and a crime against humanity.
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To the above
Hey. On the contrary. I'm a very empathetic person. I don't know if you followed this thread, but all I was doing was trying to take down the testostrone level from these guys who were chanting all this "Marines are so tough you better watch your back nonsense." All I said was that all Marines were not these tough guys that could tear people apart. I know from experience. A lot of them are just regular guys who are not that exceptional. The guys who work in more elite combat units are probably the kind of people you wouldn't mess with in a dark alley, but the Marine Corps is a big organization and there are plenty of guys or girls that don't fit that stereotype in their everyday life or occupation. Some of them are not in any better physical shape than the regular guy who goes to the gym. I know an active-duty Marine whose job is painting and drawing. After suggesting this I was slammed as being a liar. Ganged up upon by unknown people as being deceitful cowardly and disingenuous. For something I know first-hand. I spent four years of my life in the Marine Corps and I can't even mention it without being attacked? These guys were out of line and completely disrespectful for whatever reason. Imagine if people came on here and responded to your post by accusing you, for no comprehensible reason, of being a complete liar about an extensive period of your own life? Completely unjustified. That kind of thing would upset you almost beyond reason. So I responded forcefully.
Also I have nothing against English teachers in general. Just those who take macho poses.
No one has respect for English teachers? Haven't you seen this board or others? Seriously, of the few good ones most are drunk, little-girl chasing Japonphiles, who love doing the least they can in life and get paid for it. Some are in over-the-hill rock bands, still trying to live a 13-year-olds bedroom fantasies. Most are incompetent, skills-and-education-deprived morons that hide from reality and REAL responsibility (or a career) in life. Hence why they Just thinking about the industry I work in makes me wish I joined the Marine Corps, stereotypes and bitter jealousy of Marines aside.. At least I would respect myself more. Life, eh?
No one every said EVERY
No one every said EVERY Marine was a crazed warrior. The responses I read were in fact related to someone claiming NO Marine was able to fight themselves out of a paper bag, or similar. You were the one who went all disgruntled on us.
Great. One person. So what. You see to know all the supply, artist types in the Corps. Very uncommon experience you had in the Corps. Still would love to know your MOS, which you fail to detail. Would explain a lot.
Not every, but a higher percentage of the population in the Corps than society has so much more training and capability of killing. And the Marine Corps has the HIGHEST ratio of combat-trained and ready fighters to non-combat pewrsonnel in the world (check Jane's or any other proper publication, not your very limited, sad experience). You were totally off-base with your comments. Seriously, why would anyone like you join the Corps to become an artist or similar role? You can join the Air Force or Army and have a much easier existence, get promoted faster and paid more. People do not join th. You must have scored really low on your entrance test (ASVAB) or had some drug problem before to be handed such a hapless job. And if you actually chose this kind of job in the Corps, you are an idiot. Go work in civilian life if you want to weenie out of the real combat units...
I love how the guy (actually
I love how the guy (actually disgruntled woman) who claimed to be a Marine equates artists (in the Corps) to slack, weak, overweight, softy-types...Priceless! Kind of puts it into perspective, doesn't it. ;-)
Classes
Excuse me, I've never taken macho poses, only Intermediate and Business English classes. None of that Spanish tuition for me, thank you.
7:46 Huh? Possibly the most
7:46 Huh? Possibly the most confusing and screwy post I have ever seen on LJ. Is this guy drunk?
@7:46
Ok, you got me. I'm drunk, I'm confused and I'm screwed.
Marines
When you sign up to be a marine, they give you training, a uniform, and an automatic weapon. When you sign up for a Union, do you get anything of value that you can hold on to, or do you just get promises? How can you measure the value of your union membership? The attached spreadsheet shows the mathematical errors of union membership. We must all beware of unions. As the sands go through the hour glass, beware of unions.
My brother was a Marine and I
My brother was a Marine and I am very proud of him. I know what he went through and I can only dream of doing such a thing.
If I had the choice between being a scummy, dine-a-dozen, philosophy or fine arts-paper-holding, sloth, monkey entertainer English teacher, or God-forbid GEOS Manager or Director, or a Marine who makes up less than 0.8 % of the U.S. population (The Few, The Proud is right) and holds that title for life, well it there is no comparison. No offense, but pretty much any idiot who speaks English can find their way into this scuzzy industry, but every few could pass basic training or survive the horrors of war like a Marine. No offense to the good, hard-working, professional teacher out there. Too bad they are few and far between.
Re: Brother was a marine
Semper Fi, man, but you are talking apples and oranges here. In fact, your are talking some fairly rotten apples and oranges.
Totally agree. Never seen so
Totally agree. Never seen so many rotten apples in Eikaiwa and the ESL industry in general. Honestly, the worst possible group of idiotic, incompetent morons I have ever seen or worked with........Not everyone, but just too damn many. My summer lawn-mowing venture had more hard-working and less sleazy employees. Disagree, but just my experience.
what neither side wants to discuss
It's not so much the dropping of the bomb. Most of us know how many civilians got killed in other ways, such as fire bombing or the all-assault on Okinawa to 'liberate' it. The question is more about why the Allies pursued 'unconditional surrender' and continued ramping up the slaughter of civilians in order to get it. Perhaps the results are by the end of the war the Allies ended up on about as weak moral grounds as the peoples they defeated. This would, for example, have huge repurcussions with US foreign policy and its over-reliance on military power in the post-war period, up until the collapse of the US imperium, which seems to be happening right now.
Why is the Marine basic
Why is the Marine basic longer? More drill and ceremony--and you can see it, their boots are better at marching. More skull f-ing to make them think being a Marine is different. It is different, but mostly in a not very useful way. That being said, some of them make very good soldiers.
Charles, are resident left-wing nutjob is back spewing his anti-everything propaganda. Poor Charles suffers from a huge inferiority, probably smokes and drink too much, and I suppose lives in a trailer or something resembling one. Hate the world, Charles. No wonder people pay attention and respect Marines, and not you....Who are you, again? ;-)
Yes, I meant "our" resident
Yes, I meant "our" resident nutjob...Don't flip out and smoke a lot of dope trying to quell those meth-induced withdrawal symptoms, Charlie. However, i do hope you got your Prozac little guitar boy....
Shall I strum you a few chords Vickie? Now you are defending the gyrines too! For what won't you make an ass out of yourself ?
>>And the Marine Corps has
>>And the Marine Corps has the HIGHEST ratio of combat-trained and ready fighters to non-combat pewrsonnel in the world (check Jane's or any other proper publication, not your very limited, sad experience).<<
Compared to what? The MC has more that is comparable to an Army Infantry unit. That is the basic rule of gyrinedom: everyone is an infantryman. My impression of them is that, yes, overall, they have fewer paperpushers and HQ types than the US Army. But that is the way the force is configured, since when they do deploy the Navy and the Army provide so much support to them (including National Guard tanks to demolish Fallujah).
>>But Pearl Harbor was a
>>But Pearl Harbor was a complete surprise attack. If it weren't, the US Navy would have positioned its ships differently. Most ships in PH were lined up in formation and if you've ever been to Pearl Harbor, you can see how narrow and shallow it is. Lining ships up in a row in an area where they can't turn around is a death sentence if you get attacked. So clearly, PH wasn't expecting an attack, at least, not on December 7, 1941.<<
This is not quite accurate. For sure the Dept. of War had anticipated possible surprise attacks from Japan. And they were already fighting Japan covertly in China--such as 'volunteers' flying fighter planes. The US was also helping the British to sink German ships and subs out in the Atlantic.
One of the reasons why the ships were arrayed they way they were was that US forces were on relatively high levels of alert and training appropriately. But most never thought the Japanese could reach Hawaii with their carrier-based air forces. Also, most of the ships that they sunk in PH were not really that useful in WW II. The crucial battles that followed PH and gave overwhelming superiority to the US involved the use of carrier-based air forces, which the US proved far superior at--because of better intelligence, radar, and more ships. Things looked dicey after the defeats in the Pacific, especially since the British collapsed there. But the US was a three-ocean power before PH and after it.
You all seem to miss the point look at the video, humans have detonated 2055 nuclear bombs on this planet, is that not ENOUTH!!! I hope that it never happens again, we do not need to do this any more in war or for testing.
As for the debate about war crimes and horrific acts of cruelty and evil, when will we learn. I think that we may never learn, we as a race are still doing it, I for one feel ashamed to be human when I think of all the suffering we cause.
May God forgive us, I won't.
Anyone who's armed to the fucking teeth, backed up by napalm and air power, and has spent the last half century blowing the shit out of wattle and daub villages, and repeatedly and on record, has committed atrocities including cold blooded murder and rape can't seriously ask for a whole lot of respect.
Personally, every person I ever met who mouths off about their military experience (including you) doesn't have any, but pardon me for interrupting, while you act out your macho fantasy, from whichever internet cafe it is you're sitting in. Please continue.
14:29 You are one sad, disturbed, insecure, and mindless idiot. Might I also add simple-minded crybaby. Time to grow up, educate yourself, stop stereotyping and move on. Nobody in their right mind likes a person like you. Go back to kindergarten and complain about the cool kid in the sandbox that doesn't like you or include you in his games. Whaaaa....Cry....But not on here.
Good night.
There is a possibility that EIKAIWA and time spent in the cages' of EIKAIWA speaking mother English to lunatic housewives, salary men, and spoiled brats is a twisted Japanese Agenda ("pay-back" for the dropping of the BOMBS).
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