The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by downinjapan » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:48 pm

So would it be okay for any ol' white person to take part in a competition for "Akita bijin", since, you know, race doesn't matter and all that...?!

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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by downinjapan » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:50 pm

MacGyver wrote:
downinjapan wrote:How the hell can the winner of "Miss Japan" not be 100% ethnically Japanese? It makes a mockery of the competition. They should simply rename it "Beautiful women in Japan 2015" or something if they're going to let non-Japanese enter. I feel sorry for the other Japanese girls who didn't win.
I covered that. And where do you draw the line "ethnically Japanese"? What if a contestant is part Korean or Chinese? Is that acceptable? Do they have to be more than 50% "Japanese"? So if you still believe in what you are saying/persist in this line of argument, then they might as well disband the competition worldwide. You could argue a number of nations are "ethically pure" but if you went back far enough, I'm guessing you'll find that there is no such thing. Interesting factoid: 2% of the world's population has Genghis Khan's genes.
steki wrote:Different countries, but the actors in India cinema have much lighter skin tone than the bulk of the Indian population. Plae skin is held up as a standard of attractiveness and so actors/actresses don't always resemble the "average" Indian.
Indeed. In fact, the same standard applies here. "Akita bijin" for example. They are beautiful because of their pale skin due to the fact that the climate in that area of the country is colder than the rest of Japan.
Both of their parents should have to be ethnically Japanese

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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by MacGyver » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:57 pm

downinjapan wrote:So would it be okay for any ol' white person to take part in a competition for "Akita bijin", since, you know, race doesn't matter and all that...?!
Shit, easy one: if the contest said you had to be born in Akita, which is a fair assumption I think, and said "white person" was, then, yes indeed. No one is saying "non-Japanese" people can just come to the country and enter said beauty contest. There are rules, one of which I am guessing is the contestants must be born in Japan, or at very least have Japanese nationality, and back the original argument, the winner of the Miss Japan contest clearly covers.
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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by MacGyver » Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:01 pm

downinjapan wrote:Both of their parents should have to be ethnically Japanese
It seems we are just going around in circles. So let me ask this: What is your criteria for Miss America?
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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by downinjapan » Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:16 pm

MacGyver wrote:
downinjapan wrote:Both of their parents should have to be ethnically Japanese
It seems we are just going around in circles. So let me ask this: What is your criteria for Miss America?
Both parents should be American.

You are (deliberately?) missing the point though. Ask someone to picture an American woman, and they will visualize a white woman, or a black woman, or an Hispanic woman etc....ask the same person to picture a Japanese woman, and, guaranteed, they will visualize an ethnically Japanese woman. :smash: The competition is about representing your country on the world stage. The aforementioned American types all represent the plethora of modern-day American women. Ariana Miyamoto is not in any way representative of modern-day Japanese women.

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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by downinjapan » Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:19 pm

MacGyver wrote:
downinjapan wrote:So would it be okay for any ol' white person to take part in a competition for "Akita bijin", since, you know, race doesn't matter and all that...?!
Shit, easy one: if the contest said you had to be born in Akita, which is a fair assumption I think, and said "white person" was, then, yes indeed. No one is saying "non-Japanese" people can just come to the country and enter said beauty contest. There are rules, one of which I am guessing is the contestants must be born in Japan, or at very least have Japanese nationality, and back the original argument, the winner of the Miss Japan contest clearly covers.
Sweet suffering fuck, that would be an utter farce of a competition if a non-Japanese woman ever won an "Akita bijin" contest.... :bang:

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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by ShonaiBen » Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:18 pm

akita bijin?.......that's a myth......been to akita.......no bijins there.
Shit Sticks to the Wall.........

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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by RalphWiggum » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:17 pm

downinjapan wrote:
Both of their parents should have to be ethnically Japanese
It's taking all my willpower not to invoke Godwin's law...
Shit wank bollocks

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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by senseiman » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:13 pm

downinjapan wrote:
It's not racist; it's just common sense.
Of course it is racist, you are defining the issue 100% in terms of race. There is literally no other word that better describes your position here. You aren`t complaining about her looks, you aren`t complaining about her talent, you aren`t complaining about her character - all you are doing is complaining about her race.
downinjapan wrote:How the hell can the winner of "Miss Japan" not be 100% ethnically Japanese?
Because it isn`t a competition about ethnicity. That is what you want it to be (why? I don`t know), but obviously not what it actually is given that none of these contests have any sort of rules about ethnicity.
downinjapan wrote:It makes a mockery of the competition.
What? Its a fucking beauty pagent.* Of all the things you could find that make a mockery of these stupid things, THIS is it?

* Shit that actual beauty pageant contestants say:

"I personally believe the U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some, uh … people out there in our nation don't have maps, and, uh, I believe that our education like such as South Africa and, uh, the Iraq everywhere like, such as and … I believe that they should, our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S., err, uh, should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future for us."
downinjapan wrote:They should simply rename it "Beautiful women in Japan 2015" or something if they're going to let non-Japanese enter. I feel sorry for the other Japanese girls who didn't win.
She is fucking Japanese - born here, raised here, speaks the language as her native tongue, stop being a dick about it just because you object to the color of her skin. Racist.
Last edited by senseiman on Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by senseiman » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:14 pm

RalphWiggum wrote:
downinjapan wrote:
Both of their parents should have to be ethnically Japanese
It's taking all my willpower not to invoke Godwin's law...
That really is where this is going....
祇園精舎の鐘の聲、諸行無常の響あり。娑羅雙樹の花の色、盛者必衰のことわりをあらはす。おごれる人も久しからず、唯春の夜の夢のごとし。たけき者も遂にほろびぬ、偏に風の前の塵に同じ。

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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by senseiman » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:16 pm

steki47 wrote:
This discussion reminded of when Dionne Warwick was angry that George Michael won awards (AMA and Grammy awards) in the soul/R&B genres. She was upset that a white man had won awards for what she saw as black music. Historically those genres were predominately black but that is not a requirement for performing that genre.
Yeah, poor George Michael. Music belongs to the ages....
祇園精舎の鐘の聲、諸行無常の響あり。娑羅雙樹の花の色、盛者必衰のことわりをあらはす。おごれる人も久しからず、唯春の夜の夢のごとし。たけき者も遂にほろびぬ、偏に風の前の塵に同じ。

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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by steki47 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:35 am

senseiman wrote:
RalphWiggum wrote:
downinjapan wrote:
Both of their parents should have to be ethnically Japanese
It's taking all my willpower not to invoke Godwin's law...
That really is where this is going....
Yes, I suppose it is. In our previous conversation earlier this year, we discussed the difference between German and French nationalisms; law of blood vs. law of residence. Japan, unsurprisingly has taken more of a German attitude towards these things.

I am talking about citizenship and identity, not beauty pageants per se. But some Japanese have seen fit to complain about the "hafu". (Actually, how many Japanese complained? What % of the country is angry or upset? Or cares? For that matter, I am surprised that this issue did come up while she was working her way up the ladder of beauty pageants.)

By DIJ's standards, Miss Japan competitions should have ethnic requirements: trace her ancestry back 3-4 generations and such.

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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by MacGyver » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:56 am

steki47 wrote:
senseiman wrote:
RalphWiggum wrote: It's taking all my willpower not to invoke Godwin's law...
That really is where this is going....
Yes, I suppose it is.
Indeed. The same thought crossed my mind several times, especially with this bullshit "racial purity" argument.

I didn't want to jump to conclusions about racism until I understood exactly where he is coming from but now that he has made it clear, his argument is the definition of racism: discriminating based on race. Clearly he feels that his own country is not "pure" (I'm guessing though that he is an immigrant of his own country anyway so the irony runs deep) and he admires that Japan that trying to keep "racial purity". I don't know what that means in an anthropological sense but I guess he thinks it means someone who looks "Japanese". I've known a few people born to zainichi Koreans here with Japanese names and spoke Japanese natively, and if they didn't tell you they were born to zainichi parents, you'd have no clue. And of course I highly doubt that there would be a brouhaha over this winner if it wasn't for the fact that her father is black. Maybe if he was white, but definitely not if he were Asian.
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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by downinjapan » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:04 am

Oh well, I will never understand your point of view. Anyways, I can take comfort from the fact that I live in Japan, where 95% of the population agree with me, not you, on this issue! (Even if they tell you to your face that it's a wonderful thing blah blah blah). And, to the people who bleat about "racism", I would also say, good luck living in Japan! One thing I love about Japan is they haven't bought into this whole ridiculous "cry racism" crap at the drop of a hat. Great country!

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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by downinjapan » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:07 am

[/quote]
Indeed. The same thought crossed my mind several times, especially with this bullshit "racial purity" argument.

I didn't want to jump to conclusions about racism until I understood exactly where he is coming from but now that he has made it clear, his argument is the definition of racism: discriminating based on race. Clearly he feels that his own country is not "pure" (I'm guessing though that he is an immigrant of his own country anyway so the irony runs deep) and he admires that Japan that trying to keep "racial purity". I don't know what that means in an anthropological sense but I guess he thinks it means someone who looks "Japanese". I've known a few people born to zainichi Koreans here with Japanese names and spoke Japanese natively, and if they didn't tell you they were born to zainichi parents, you'd have no clue. And of course I highly doubt that there would be a brouhaha over this winner if it wasn't for the fact that her father is black. Maybe if he was white, but definitely not if he were Asian.[/quote]

Wrong. I would feel the same if her father were white or non-Japanese Asian. :smash:

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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by MacGyver » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:22 am

downinjapan wrote:Oh well, I will never understand your point of view.
Clearly but that says more about you than I.
downinjapan wrote:Anyways, I can take comfort from the fact that I live in Japan, where 95% of the population agree with me, not you, on this issue!
Nice stat! Which orifice did you rip that one from?
downinjapan wrote:One thing I love about Japan is they haven't bought into this whole ridiculous "cry racism" crap at the drop of a hat. Great country!
"Cry racism crap"? So when you are denied a place to live based on the color of your skin, you just suck it up and say "yes this is just and has nothing to do with the color of skin. Being a douchebag lowlife, I deserved it."? Or perhaps a better example is when a black man is shot and killed in America by a cop cause he was black, this is not racism? Or perhaps we shouldn't raise the fact that race played a part in the incident? Sounds like you have some guilt issues going on.
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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by senseiman » Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:52 pm

downinjapan wrote:Oh well, I will never understand your point of view. Anyways, I can take comfort from the fact that I live in Japan, where 95% of the population agree with me, not you, on this issue!
Really? If your poll is limited to unemployed 50 year old virgin net Uyoku who spend all day on Channel 2 then yeah maybe 95% or even 100% agree with you. Outside of that narrowly defined demographic it is pretty safe to say almost nobody else gives a shit.
downinjapan wrote:(Even if they tell you to your face that it's a wonderful thing blah blah blah).
Wow, you have lived in Japan long enough to know that Japanese people say nice things to people even if they actually think differently. You must have lived here at least 4 or 5 months, making you the expert of all things Japanese.
downinjapan wrote: And, to the people who bleat about "racism", I would also say, good luck living in Japan! One thing I love about Japan is they haven't bought into this whole ridiculous "cry racism" crap at the drop of a hat. Great country!
I`m willing to bet that I have been living here way longer than you and have achieved way more happiness in this country than anyone who defines his enjoyment of living here primarily in terms of how much tolerance people display towards racist attitudes (gee...wonder if that might have anything to do with the whole tatemae/honmae thing you are such an expert on? Nah, you are too special, that obviously only applies to liberals.)
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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by downinjapan » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:08 pm

Guaranteed I've been in Japan longer than you, and have achieved much more.

Anyways, enjoy your liberal, sheltered life!

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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by senseiman » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:11 pm

steki47 wrote:
Yes, I suppose it is. In our previous conversation earlier this year, we discussed the difference between German and French nationalisms; law of blood vs. law of residence. Japan, unsurprisingly has taken more of a German attitude towards these things.

I am talking about citizenship and identity, not beauty pageants per se. But some Japanese have seen fit to complain about the "hafu". (Actually, how many Japanese complained? What % of the country is angry or upset? Or cares? For that matter, I am surprised that this issue did come up while she was working her way up the ladder of beauty pageants.)
I`m pretty sure the vast majority of people in Japan don`t really care about the hafu issue (which I think barely qualifies as an issue for most Japanese). Even the ultra-nationalists in the sound trucks probably aren`t bothered by it - they really mainly have it in for the Chinese and Koreans (who, ironically, look the same as Japanese). The success of models and other celebs like Lola, etc also indicates the general level of not-giving-a-shit/acceptance is pretty high among ordinary people.

Actually in terms of citizenship there is also no issue for hafu children, so long as one of the parents is Japanese they qualify (my kid has a Japanese passport).
steki47 wrote:By DIJ's standards, Miss Japan competitions should have ethnic requirements: trace her ancestry back 3-4 generations and such.
The standard he proposes is just stupid on the face of it. It basically boils down to "I want them to look, uh, more Asian-y cuz they are supposed to be, like from Asia? You know. So lets just make rules to make them more Asian-looking, mmmkay?"

On a side note, this isn`t even a new thing. Back in the 1960s and 1970s Japanese baseball - in its heyday - was dominated by players of mixed ancestry. The career records for home runs (Sadaharu Oh - half Taiwanese), hits (Isao Harimoto - half Korean) and consecutive games played (Sachio Kinugasa - half American) are to this day held by people with one non-Japanese parent. A few nasty old men probably grumbled about it but were generally overwhelmed by the "we don't give a shit" faction which dominated.
Last edited by senseiman on Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
祇園精舎の鐘の聲、諸行無常の響あり。娑羅雙樹の花の色、盛者必衰のことわりをあらはす。おごれる人も久しからず、唯春の夜の夢のごとし。たけき者も遂にほろびぬ、偏に風の前の塵に同じ。

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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by senseiman » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:16 pm

downinjapan wrote:Guaranteed I've been in Japan longer than you, and have achieved much more.

Anyways, enjoy your liberal, sheltered life!
OK, bad form of me to call you out for being a newbie, but still. The main thing you have found to like about living in this country is that people don't call you racist? This implies:

A) that back home people called you racist all the time, and

B) you haven't really experienced much here.
祇園精舎の鐘の聲、諸行無常の響あり。娑羅雙樹の花の色、盛者必衰のことわりをあらはす。おごれる人も久しからず、唯春の夜の夢のごとし。たけき者も遂にほろびぬ、偏に風の前の塵に同じ。

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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by RalphWiggum » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:48 am

This fuckhead is ex_drone. I claim my five pounds!
Shit wank bollocks

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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by steki47 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:30 am

senseiman wrote:I`m pretty sure the vast majority of people in Japan don`t really care about the hafu issue (which I think barely qualifies as an issue for most Japanese). Even the ultra-nationalists in the sound trucks probably aren`t bothered by it - they really mainly have it in for the Chinese and Koreans (who, ironically, look the same as Japanese). The success of models and other celebs like Lola, etc also indicates the general level of not-giving-a-shit/acceptance is pretty high among ordinary people.

On a side note, this isn`t even a new thing. Back in the 1960s and 1970s Japanese baseball - in its heyday - was dominated by players of mixed ancestry. The career records for home runs (Sadaharu Oh - half Taiwanese), hits (Isao Harimoto - half Korean) and consecutive games played (Sachio Kinugasa - half American) are to this day held by people with one non-Japanese parent. A few nasty old men probably grumbled about it but were generally overwhelmed by the "we don't give a shit" faction which dominated.
Very good points here. Further irony is that within the ranls of yakuza, for all their "pure-blooded" rhetoric, you can find a lot of Chinese/Koreans.

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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by steki47 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:52 am

MacGyver wrote: "Cry racism crap"? So when you are denied a place to live based on the color of your skin, you just suck it up and say "yes this is just and has nothing to do with the color of skin. Being a douchebag lowlife, I deserved it."? Or perhaps a better example is when a black man is shot and killed in America by a cop cause he was black, this is not racism? Or perhaps we shouldn't raise the fact that race played a part in the incident?
Sorry, I have to call you on this. The discrimination is not because of the color of one's skin, but what is associated with that group. The skin color rhetoric is a weird way of discrediting certain attitudes. NYC taxi drivers don't pick up black men because they hate that skin tone, but because the vast majority of people who rob taxi drivers at gunpoint are young black men. (Of course, most young black men do not rob taxis but why risk getting robbed and possibly shot over a $5 tip?)

Black men don't get shot by cops because they are black-this is another myth. I don't know how much experience you have with American blacks, but I have years of bad experiences. Ghetto blacks who walk right in front of oncoming traffic and scream, "Fuck you, you white motherfucker!" if you dare to honk the horn at them. Happened to me and my friends dozens of times. Seen quite a few car accidents involving a black man on a bike and a middle-class white sucker in a car. Some of them are just looking for a fight with Whitey while I think others are going for the AARP (African-American Retirment Program) whereby they get injured (or fake injuries) and sue the shit out of individuals or companies (deeper pockets here)

Those individual Blacks who get shot by cops are typically trying to assault the cop (Ferguson and Louisville, KY, two examples). Others blacks were habitual criminals who resisted arrest and other dumb things. Mouthing off to cops and making sudden moves is very stupid and race/racism should not be used an excuse for stupid behavior.

Obviously most black people are law abiding citizens, etc but a disportionate % of young black men are dangerous and stupid and they ruin it for the rest of their group.

As for gaijin and landlords, some landlords are just simply racist who don't want us in their buildings. Not much to say about that, call the next place. Again, I don't think they literally hate our appearance or skin tone so much as associate that appearance with bad things: dirty and noisy behavior.

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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by senseiman » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:45 pm

n
Last edited by senseiman on Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by senseiman » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:45 pm

steki47 wrote:
Sorry, I have to call you on this.

That may be true about the behavior of some, but I`m not sure what your overall point is. Discrimination against black people is OK because some black people do bad things? I mean, if you are a law abiding citizen and you are targeted because the police associate your group with a certain kind of behavior then uh, yeah you are being targeted because of the color of your skin. Equality before the law - if you believe in that then this sort of stuff shouldn`t be allowed.
steki47 wrote:
Those individual Blacks who get shot by cops are typically trying to assault the cop (Ferguson and Louisville, KY, two examples). Others blacks were habitual criminals who resisted arrest and other dumb things. Mouthing off to cops and making sudden moves is very stupid and race/racism should not be used an excuse for stupid behavior.
[/quote]

Kind of a circular argument though isn`t it? Cops are more likely to use violence against black people because black people are more likely to use violence against them, black people are more likely to use violence against police because police are more likely to use violence against them?

Again though, not sure what the point is. If I was black I sure as hell wouldn`t find the argument that "because some other black people do stupid stuff and are violent, its OK for the police to just go ahead and assume that all black people including you are like that and treat you accordingly." Not sure if that is the argument you are trying to make (I assume it isn't), but the logic seems consistent.
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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by senseiman » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:49 pm

RalphWiggum wrote:This fuckhead is ex_drone. I claim my five pounds!
Oh I remember him. I knew we were getting trolled.

I hereby revoke my previous apology, DIJ. Fuck off you racist troll cunt.
祇園精舎の鐘の聲、諸行無常の響あり。娑羅雙樹の花の色、盛者必衰のことわりをあらはす。おごれる人も久しからず、唯春の夜の夢のごとし。たけき者も遂にほろびぬ、偏に風の前の塵に同じ。

Kuronama
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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by Kuronama » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:43 pm

senseiman wrote:
That may be true about the behavior of some, but I`m not sure what your overall point is. Discrimination against black people is OK because some black people do bad things? I mean, if you are a law abiding citizen and you are targeted because the police associate your group with a certain kind of behavior then uh, yeah you are being targeted because of the color of your skin. Equality before the law - if you believe in that then this sort of stuff shouldn`t be allowed.

I've got an interesting scenario for you to consider: How do you feel about individuals being legally allowed to wear turbans while riding a motorcycle? That is legal in Canada. The same goes for individuals being allowed to wear turbans while passing through security screening at airports (there was a policy or law in place that did not allow it, but protest from individuals in the Sikh community had the policy/law reversed). My understanding of 'equality before the law' is just that: equality - no special treatment. Nobody is forcing these guys to ride motorcycles. The airport scenario is a bit more tricky, I'll admit; however, if I choose to wear a cowboy hat at security and am asked to take it off but refuse, is it infringing on my rights?

The reason I bring these things up is that a number of 'special interest groups' seem to be able to get laws that exempt them - and this is in no way whatsoever 'equal'. I'm all about equality - but that doesn't mean special treatment and laws that exempt certain individuals within a given legal jurisdiction. Just my take...

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senseiman
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Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by senseiman » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:34 pm

Kuronama wrote:

I've got an interesting scenario for you to consider: How do you feel about individuals being legally allowed to wear turbans while riding a motorcycle? That is legal in Canada. The same goes for individuals being allowed to wear turbans while passing through security screening at airports (there was a policy or law in place that did not allow it, but protest from individuals in the Sikh community had the policy/law reversed). My understanding of 'equality before the law' is just that: equality - no special treatment. Nobody is forcing these guys to ride motorcycles. The airport scenario is a bit more tricky, I'll admit; however, if I choose to wear a cowboy hat at security and am asked to take it off but refuse, is it infringing on my rights?

The reason I bring these things up is that a number of 'special interest groups' seem to be able to get laws that exempt them - and this is in no way whatsoever 'equal'. I'm all about equality - but that doesn't mean special treatment and laws that exempt certain individuals within a given legal jurisdiction. Just my take...
Generally I would say that if we have a law which requires helmets, that should apply to everybody including Sikhs (etc). Canada is kind of a curious case in that regard, some provinces like BC and Manitoba have exemptions for turbans but others like Ontario have rejected that approach and apply the law to everybody. I tend to favor the Ontario approach - providing exemptions to safety rules to accomodate religious beliefs really makes no sense, especially in situtations where the two are completely incompatible with each other (as in the turban-helmet example).

Mind you, helmet laws aren`t something that gets me worked up in this regard. Its a rule designed to protect the people subject to it from their own stupidity - exempting Sikhs from it doesn`t actually disadvantage anyone other than those Sikhs (who get into motorbike accidents and sustain head injuries attributable to not wearing a helmet).
祇園精舎の鐘の聲、諸行無常の響あり。娑羅雙樹の花の色、盛者必衰のことわりをあらはす。おごれる人も久しからず、唯春の夜の夢のごとし。たけき者も遂にほろびぬ、偏に風の前の塵に同じ。

steki47

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by steki47 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:28 pm

senseiman wrote:That may be true about the behavior of some, but I`m not sure what your overall point is. Discrimination against black people is OK because some black people do bad things?
senseiman wrote:Kind of a circular argument though isn`t it?
Not per se, but I think the chicken/egg equation is reversed in much of the media coverage. I don't think it is racist cops hunting for blacks but it is some black people committing a lot of crime (often concentrated in specific neighborhoods) so cops spend more time looking at a certain demographic group.

Asians don't get stopped and frisked by the cops because Asians have very low crime rates. It would be a waste of the cops' time.
If young black men didn't commit so much crime, police wouldn't focus on them so much.
Also, in some of the more publicized black/cop incidents, cops were dealing with individuals who were "frequent flyers". Who also mouthed off to cops and resisted arrest. Selling loosies doesn't warrant the death penalty, but getting arrested 30+ for the same crime will put on the cops' radar. Freddie Gray got arrested 3 times in the same week for dealing. These guys did not learn their lessons. Personal opinion, no huge loss to society and I think it sad that blacks (and some whites) would choose these wastes as rallying points.

steki47

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by steki47 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:31 pm

Kuronama wrote: I've got an interesting scenario for you to consider: How do you feel about individuals being legally allowed to wear turbans while riding a motorcycle? That is legal in Canada. The same goes for individuals being allowed to wear turbans while passing through security screening at airports (there was a policy or law in place that did not allow it, but protest from individuals in the Sikh community had the policy/law reversed). My understanding of 'equality before the law' is just that: equality - no special treatment. Nobody is forcing these guys to ride motorcycles. The airport scenario is a bit more tricky, I'll admit; however, if I choose to wear a cowboy hat at security and am asked to take it off but refuse, is it infringing on my rights?

The reason I bring these things up is that a number of 'special interest groups' seem to be able to get laws that exempt them - and this is in no way whatsoever 'equal'. I'm all about equality - but that doesn't mean special treatment and laws that exempt certain individuals within a given legal jurisdiction. Just my take...
I remember an issue in Canada over the uniform of the RCMP with Sikhs insisting they could wear their turbans while in uniform. Very symbolic and controversial. Some argued that they keep the uniform traditional while others argued for exceptions with certain ethnic/religious groups.

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