The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

For topics not directly related to eikaiwa.
Forum rules
The basic forum rules are here :wink: . Refer to the BBCode Guide for information on using BBCode tags, plus this post about additional tags for embedding video.
scanman
Enthusiastic Newbie
Enthusiastic Newbie
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:11 am

The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by scanman » Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:12 pm

Is it ok to select a hafu as Miss Japan?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-32957610

steki47

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by steki47 » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:05 am

I have been this issue as well.
My thoughts:
1. The term "half" is quite different from the term "biracial" we use in English. Half full/half empty; it implies something lacking while biracial sounds better to me. It implies double or even more. Far more positive connotations.
2. Japan is 98+% Japanese with most non-Japanese being other East Asians. In terms of physical appearance I can see the argument that a half-black woman does not represent the Japanese as a whole. Disagree with it, but see their argument.
3. She is quite beautiful.
4. Beauty pageants have some symbolic value, but really aren't all that important.

User avatar
downinjapan
Fresh & Minty
Fresh & Minty
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:02 pm

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by downinjapan » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:38 pm

She isn't representative of 99.9% of Japanese women, so it's farcical that she is being considered as a Miss Japan. I would think it equally ridiculous if some woman of Middle Eastern appearance won Miss England, just because she was born there....

steki47

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by steki47 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:04 am

downinjapan wrote:She isn't representative of 99.9% of Japanese women, so it's farcical that she is being considered as a Miss Japan. I would think it equally ridiculous if some woman of Middle Eastern appearance won Miss England, just because she was born there....
In the US, we have had nonwhite Miss America/USA winners over the years. Not a big deal.

Having said that, it would be strange to see this on the runway in the UK/US:
o-SAUDI-ARABIA-WOMEN-570[1].jpg

sirwanksalot
Masturbateur
Masturbateur
Posts: 1751
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 2:40 pm

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by sirwanksalot » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:51 am

I'd bang her!

User avatar
senseiman
9 miles of bad road
9 miles of bad road
Posts: 1868
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 1:51 pm
Location: Japan again

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by senseiman » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:59 pm

downinjapan wrote:She isn't representative of 99.9% of Japanese women, so it's farcical that she is being considered as a Miss Japan. I would think it equally ridiculous if some woman of Middle Eastern appearance won Miss England, just because she was born there....
Seriously, the nerve eh? Someone with different skin color being treated as though they were actual equal as human beings? WTF?
祇園精舎の鐘の聲、諸行無常の響あり。娑羅雙樹の花の色、盛者必衰のことわりをあらはす。おごれる人も久しからず、唯春の夜の夢のごとし。たけき者も遂にほろびぬ、偏に風の前の塵に同じ。

User avatar
Wage Slave
Shockproof shit detector
Shockproof shit detector
Posts: 3467
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:42 pm
Location: In Front of the Thing with Lots of Buttons

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by Wage Slave » Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:20 am

senseiman wrote:
downinjapan wrote:She isn't representative of 99.9% of Japanese women, so it's farcical that she is being considered as a Miss Japan. I would think it equally ridiculous if some woman of Middle Eastern appearance won Miss England, just because she was born there....
Seriously, the nerve eh? Someone with different skin color being treated as though they were actual equal as human beings? WTF?
Yes, quite. And anyway, isn't the whole point of a beauty contest that the winner is NOT like 99.9% of women. I mean you are supposed to be exceptional - otherwise WTF is the point of the whole exercise? Who ever said you are required to conform to an archetype as well as being exceptionally beautiful/want to heal the world/like puppies and children.
Don't hesitate to spoil the ship for a ha'porth of tar. You'll get credit for saving the ha'penny and someone else will get the blame for losing the ship.

User avatar
downinjapan
Fresh & Minty
Fresh & Minty
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:02 pm

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by downinjapan » Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:49 am

senseiman wrote:
downinjapan wrote:She isn't representative of 99.9% of Japanese women, so it's farcical that she is being considered as a Miss Japan. I would think it equally ridiculous if some woman of Middle Eastern appearance won Miss England, just because she was born there....
Seriously, the nerve eh? Someone with different skin color being treated as though they were actual equal as human beings? WTF?
Well done on missing the point. :axe:

scanman
Enthusiastic Newbie
Enthusiastic Newbie
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:11 am

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by scanman » Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:18 am

I think basically it's racial predudice. If she was 'hafu' white American and 'hafu' Japanese there wouldn't be such criticism, I'm sure.

User avatar
senseiman
9 miles of bad road
9 miles of bad road
Posts: 1868
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 1:51 pm
Location: Japan again

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by senseiman » Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:42 pm

downinjapan wrote:
senseiman wrote:
downinjapan wrote:She isn't representative of 99.9% of Japanese women, so it's farcical that she is being considered as a Miss Japan. I would think it equally ridiculous if some woman of Middle Eastern appearance won Miss England, just because she was born there....
Seriously, the nerve eh? Someone with different skin color being treated as though they were actual equal as human beings? WTF?
Well done on missing the point. :axe:
Was your original post intended to be taken sarcastically? Otherwise, what was your point other than people should be excluded from these things based on their skin color?

If it was the former, my apologies. If not, then fuck off you racist newbie cunt.
祇園精舎の鐘の聲、諸行無常の響あり。娑羅雙樹の花の色、盛者必衰のことわりをあらはす。おごれる人も久しからず、唯春の夜の夢のごとし。たけき者も遂にほろびぬ、偏に風の前の塵に同じ。

User avatar
downinjapan
Fresh & Minty
Fresh & Minty
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:02 pm

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by downinjapan » Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:37 pm

Hmm, let's see if your clearly peanut-sized brain can handle this....

I have no problems with her "being treated as though they were actual equal as human beings"; but the issue is her being lauded as a "Miss Japan", not as a human being. The contest isn't called "Miss Human Being", twat. Someone standing as "Miss Japan" should be fucking 100% Japanese, otherwise, what's the fucking point, cunt?

Go back to reading Debito, or whatever crap your brain can fathom. :FU:

User avatar
senseiman
9 miles of bad road
9 miles of bad road
Posts: 1868
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 1:51 pm
Location: Japan again

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by senseiman » Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:11 pm

downinjapan wrote:Hmm, let's see if your clearly peanut-sized brain can handle this....

I have no problems with her "being treated as though they were actual equal as human beings"; but the issue is her being lauded as a "Miss Japan", not as a human being. The contest isn't called "Miss Human Being", twat. Someone standing as "Miss Japan" should be fucking 100% Japanese, otherwise, what's the fucking point, cunt?

Go back to reading Debito, or whatever crap your brain can fathom. :FU:
Thought so. She is 100% Japanese, says so right there on her passport.

Racist cunt. Fuck off.
祇園精舎の鐘の聲、諸行無常の響あり。娑羅雙樹の花の色、盛者必衰のことわりをあらはす。おごれる人も久しからず、唯春の夜の夢のごとし。たけき者も遂にほろびぬ、偏に風の前の塵に同じ。

User avatar
downinjapan
Fresh & Minty
Fresh & Minty
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:02 pm

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by downinjapan » Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:47 pm

senseiman wrote:
downinjapan wrote:Hmm, let's see if your clearly peanut-sized brain can handle this....

I have no problems with her "being treated as though they were actual equal as human beings"; but the issue is her being lauded as a "Miss Japan", not as a human being. The contest isn't called "Miss Human Being", twat. Someone standing as "Miss Japan" should be fucking 100% Japanese, otherwise, what's the fucking point, cunt?

Go back to reading Debito, or whatever crap your brain can fathom. :FU:
Thought so. She is 100% Japanese, says so right there on her passport.

Racist cunt. Fuck off.
Do you even know when you are as thick as you are?

User avatar
senseiman
9 miles of bad road
9 miles of bad road
Posts: 1868
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 1:51 pm
Location: Japan again

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by senseiman » Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:14 pm

downinjapan wrote:
Do you even know when you are as thick as you are?
Do you?

You come into a forum full of people, including me, who are parents of hafu kids and start spouting this bullshit about how, despite being born and raised in this country, they shouldn`t be allowed to do stuff like this because they don`t meet your standards for racial purity.

Say shit like that to my face or anywhere near my kid and you`d be on the floor.Well, actually you probably wouldn`t be but that is just because I suck at fighting. Anyway, you get the point.

What the fuck reaction do you expect?
祇園精舎の鐘の聲、諸行無常の響あり。娑羅雙樹の花の色、盛者必衰のことわりをあらはす。おごれる人も久しからず、唯春の夜の夢のごとし。たけき者も遂にほろびぬ、偏に風の前の塵に同じ。

User avatar
downinjapan
Fresh & Minty
Fresh & Minty
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:02 pm

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by downinjapan » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:23 am

senseiman wrote:
downinjapan wrote:
Do you even know when you are as thick as you are?
Do you?

You come into a forum full of people, including me, who are parents of hafu kids and start spouting this bullshit about how, despite being born and raised in this country, they shouldn`t be allowed to do stuff like this because they don`t meet your standards for racial purity.

Say shit like that to my face or anywhere near my kid and you`d be on the floor.Well, actually you probably wouldn`t be but that is just because I suck at fighting. Anyway, you get the point.

What the fuck reaction do you expect?
Oh, I wouldn't expect any other reaction from this board! Jesus, I'm so glad Japan is not going the way of, say, the UK or France; mention anything about race and you're immediately shouted down by the liberal fools (i.e. you) as being "racist". Good luck raising your "hafu" family in Japan, lol! Japan's got it right when it comes to shit like this. :clap:

User avatar
senseiman
9 miles of bad road
9 miles of bad road
Posts: 1868
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 1:51 pm
Location: Japan again

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by senseiman » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:48 am

downinjapan wrote:

Jesus, I'm so glad Japan is not going the way of, say, the UK or France; mention anything about race and you're immediately shouted down by the liberal fools (i.e. you) as being "racist". :
Yeah it is crazy how people in the UK and France will call you out for being racist just for saying racist shit. Or is there some reason why saying someone shouldn't be allowed to win a beauty pageant solely based on her race isn't racist? :bs:
祇園精舎の鐘の聲、諸行無常の響あり。娑羅雙樹の花の色、盛者必衰のことわりをあらはす。おごれる人も久しからず、唯春の夜の夢のごとし。たけき者も遂にほろびぬ、偏に風の前の塵に同じ。

User avatar
RalphWiggum
LJ Oracle
LJ Oracle
Posts: 1421
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 5:52 pm
Location: Sunny England

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by RalphWiggum » Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:01 am

downinjapan wrote:The contest isn't called "Miss Human Being", twat. Someone standing as "Miss Japan" should be fucking 100% Japanese, otherwise, what's the fucking point, cunt?
Well, the point is that you represent the country of your citizenship in a competition to decide who is the most attractive. The competition does not demand that entrants are a classic example of the look of the nation, as far as I'm aware. How would you go about deciding what the classic look of any nation is anyway, especially countries like the USA, Brazil, the UK etc? In this case this girl is a Japanese national and is very beautiful - why wouldn't she be the right person to represent Japan?
Shit wank bollocks

scanman
Enthusiastic Newbie
Enthusiastic Newbie
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:11 am

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by scanman » Sat Jun 13, 2015 11:04 am

From the beauty Queen herself: “I didn’t feel any added pressure, because the reason I took part in the pageant was my *friend’s death (suicide),” she said. “My goal was to raise awareness of racial discrimination. Now I have a great platform to deliver that message as the first black Miss Universe Japan. It’s always hard to be the first, so in that respect what Naomi Campbell did was really amazing.”

*The stigma of being biracial in Japan can be so great that it leads some people — like a close mixed-race friend of Miyamoto’s — to take their own lives. Though Miyamoto was bullied growing up in the port town of Sasebo in Nagasaki prefecture, she told AFP that it was her friend’s suicide that ultimately convinced her to enter the Miss Universe Japan contest.

steki47

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by steki47 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:09 pm

Wage Slave wrote:And anyway, isn't the whole point of a beauty contest that the winner is NOT like 99.9% of women. I mean you are supposed to be exceptional - otherwise WTF is the point of the whole exercise?
Yes, but aren't the winners supposed to be exceptionally representational of the group? You win a Nobel prize in physics because you made an exceptional contribution to that specific field. Is a half-foreign woman truly representational of Japan as a whole? Again, I am not sure a beauty pageant is all that important but to some it clearly has some symbolic value.

steki47

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by steki47 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:12 pm

downinjapan wrote:Oh, I wouldn't expect any other reaction from this board! Jesus, I'm so glad Japan is not going the way of, say, the UK or France; mention anything about race and you're immediately shouted down by the liberal fools (i.e. you) as being "racist". Good luck raising your "hafu" family in Japan, lol! Japan's got it right when it comes to shit like this. :clap:
Play nice, dude. We have had some lengthy discussions of such issues here (and I have a feeling you and I might agree on a few things) but we were respectful to one another.

User avatar
senseiman
9 miles of bad road
9 miles of bad road
Posts: 1868
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 1:51 pm
Location: Japan again

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by senseiman » Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:47 pm

steki47 wrote:
Yes, but aren't the winners supposed to be exceptionally representational of the group? You win a Nobel prize in physics because you made an exceptional contribution to that specific field. Is a half-foreign woman truly representational of Japan as a whole? Again, I am not sure a beauty pageant is all that important but to some it clearly has some symbolic value.
There are a few problems with that argument though. For starters the mere fact that someone doesn't look the same doesnt mean they can't represent the group, especially in beauty contests (if we were to strictly apply this criteria, all Miss America contestants would have to put on about 60 pounds). The symbolic value lies not in the purity of their racial heritage but in other qualities that they embody (particularly good looks but also character, etc).

The Nobel thing is a bit like comparing apples and oranges, they don't hand those out to people for representing their field but because of their individual contribution to the field (there is no equivalent concept in beauty pageants).
祇園精舎の鐘の聲、諸行無常の響あり。娑羅雙樹の花の色、盛者必衰のことわりをあらはす。おごれる人も久しからず、唯春の夜の夢のごとし。たけき者も遂にほろびぬ、偏に風の前の塵に同じ。

steki47

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by steki47 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 6:07 pm

senseiman wrote: For starters the mere fact that someone doesn't look the same doesnt mean they can't represent the group, especially in beauty contests (if we were to strictly apply this criteria, all Miss America contestants would have to put on about 60 pounds).
:haha: Nice one!

OK, not my best argument.

User avatar
downinjapan
Fresh & Minty
Fresh & Minty
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:02 pm

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by downinjapan » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:55 am

Please see above to confirm who started with the foul language. Hint: it wasn't me.

User avatar
MacGyver
Shockproof shit detector
Shockproof shit detector
Posts: 4807
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 12:22 pm
Location: In the Stargate

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by MacGyver » Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:36 pm

I also disagree with this idea that you must be 100% of that nationality to represent it in a beauty contest. As others have said, how do you tell who is representative of a country with a large migrant population (America, Australia, and Canada are the best examples off the top of my head considering that the original native populations are a very small minority)? And on that point, wouldn't a "true" representative in Japan be an Ainu? I think you could take that further into athletics. Plenty of naturalized people (and in this case she's not even naturalized; she was born here) represent their new country in sport.

The point about looks and being "exceptional" is also a good one. I'm not suggesting that beauty pageant winners are necessarily supposed to be models but you'll find one criteria of becoming a model in many cases is a "look". In fact, most of the cat walk models I find extremely unattractive.

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but in some beaut pageant contest isn't it as much about how much the contestant has raised in charity money and/or what she has done for charity? Moreover, in the contest itself, they are often asked a question and graded on the question, how much I couldn't tell you, but that is part of it so a smoking hot dumbarse may lose to someone who isn't quite as hot but is smart.

And finally, what is representative of Japan? A tall woman? A woman with fair skin? A short woman? A woman with dark skin? You'll find most of the winners are somewhat tall, certainly taller than average, but that isn't representative of Japan, is it?
"Yous guys talk a lotta shit. I'm much more smarter than all a yous." - Samurai Jerk after being owned by the Let's Japan crew.

steki47

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by steki47 » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:30 pm

MacGyver wrote:And finally, what is representative of Japan? A tall woman? A woman with fair skin? A short woman? A woman with dark skin? You'll find most of the winners are somewhat tall, certainly taller than average, but that isn't representative of Japan, is it?
Different countries, but the actors in India cinema have much lighter skin tone than the bulk of the Indian population. Plae skin is held up as a standard of attractiveness and so actors/actresses don't always resemble the "average" Indian.

User avatar
senseiman
9 miles of bad road
9 miles of bad road
Posts: 1868
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 1:51 pm
Location: Japan again

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by senseiman » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:45 pm

downinjapan wrote:Please see above to confirm who started with the foul language. Hint: it wasn't me.
True enough and I apologize for the insults. I thought you were just trolling us and this is an issue I take personally so I flew off the handle a bit there. Sorry.

That said, I stand by the accusation of racism. This isn`t liberal political correctness run amok, its calling a spade a spade. The position you have staked out here is that people should be excluded from these things solely based on their race in a contest where, as the above discussion indicates, there is no valid reason for doing so. How is that not racist?
祇園精舎の鐘の聲、諸行無常の響あり。娑羅雙樹の花の色、盛者必衰のことわりをあらはす。おごれる人も久しからず、唯春の夜の夢のごとし。たけき者も遂にほろびぬ、偏に風の前の塵に同じ。

AsahiSupaSpy
Eikaiwa Hero
Eikaiwa Hero
Posts: 580
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:01 pm

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by AsahiSupaSpy » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:37 pm

senseiman wrote: calling a spade a spade.
That's racist.
Do NOT arrest this man.

steki47

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by steki47 » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:06 pm

senseiman wrote: The position you have staked out here is that people should be excluded from these things solely based on their race in a contest where, as the above discussion indicates, there is no valid reason for doing so. How is that not racist?
This discussion reminded of when Dionne Warwick was angry that George Michael won awards (AMA and Grammy awards) in the soul/R&B genres. She was upset that a white man had won awards for what she saw as black music. Historically those genres were predominately black but that is not a requirement for performing that genre.

User avatar
downinjapan
Fresh & Minty
Fresh & Minty
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:02 pm

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by downinjapan » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:15 pm

senseiman wrote:
downinjapan wrote:Please see above to confirm who started with the foul language. Hint: it wasn't me.
True enough and I apologize for the insults. I thought you were just trolling us and this is an issue I take personally so I flew off the handle a bit there. Sorry.

That said, I stand by the accusation of racism. This isn`t liberal political correctness run amok, its calling a spade a spade. The position you have staked out here is that people should be excluded from these things solely based on their race in a contest where, as the above discussion indicates, there is no valid reason for doing so. How is that not racist?
It's not racist; it's just common sense. How the hell can the winner of "Miss Japan" not be 100% ethnically Japanese? It makes a mockery of the competition. They should simply rename it "Beautiful women in Japan 2015" or something if they're going to let non-Japanese enter. I feel sorry for the other Japanese girls who didn't win.

User avatar
MacGyver
Shockproof shit detector
Shockproof shit detector
Posts: 4807
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 12:22 pm
Location: In the Stargate

Re: The beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

Unread post by MacGyver » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:35 pm

downinjapan wrote:How the hell can the winner of "Miss Japan" not be 100% ethnically Japanese? It makes a mockery of the competition. They should simply rename it "Beautiful women in Japan 2015" or something if they're going to let non-Japanese enter. I feel sorry for the other Japanese girls who didn't win.
I covered that. And where do you draw the line "ethnically Japanese"? What if a contestant is part Korean or Chinese? Is that acceptable? Do they have to be more than 50% "Japanese"? So if you still believe in what you are saying/persist in this line of argument, then they might as well disband the competition worldwide. You could argue a number of nations are "ethically pure" but if you went back far enough, I'm guessing you'll find that there is no such thing. Interesting factoid: 2% of the world's population has Genghis Khan's genes.
steki wrote:Different countries, but the actors in India cinema have much lighter skin tone than the bulk of the Indian population. Plae skin is held up as a standard of attractiveness and so actors/actresses don't always resemble the "average" Indian.
Indeed. In fact, the same standard applies here. "Akita bijin" for example. They are beautiful because of their pale skin due to the fact that the climate in that area of the country is colder than the rest of Japan.
"Yous guys talk a lotta shit. I'm much more smarter than all a yous." - Samurai Jerk after being owned by the Let's Japan crew.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests