Customer Service is Excellent Here. Look! Bowing & Scraping!

[Wage Slave]

So thread for gripes about what customer service is really like when things go wrong. We painted the front of the house on Friday with good quality exterior water based paint from a major chain It is supposed to dry in 4 hours max. It was 25 degrees or so and breezy. The weather stayed dry until Saturday afternoon when there was a little light rain. It was fine at that point. Saturday night it rained properly and Sunday morning the paintwork was ruined. Either this paint is rubbish or it is from a bad batch. I know from experience that the store instantly attempts to pin the blame on you implying you are lying to gain an unfair advantage and will only very reluctantly do anything. Let's try phoning the manufacturer directly this time and see what they say.

[ShonaiBen]

the paint may have dried in 4 hours but it wasn't able to set properly with all the rain that followed........that's my guess anyway......let's see what the manufacturer says.

[Mogura]

Customer service in Japan is all about fake smiles and acting like a helium-sucking robot; it has nothing to do with the concept of "Let's make it right." You cease to be the customer once you've made the purchase. That said, I wish you the best of luck on your venture...

[allblacks]

I have told a customs agent here time and again that we do not put year of manufacture on bill of lading when we export to Australia. This is because Australian customs are pedantic about the information. VIN number is sufficient. Does this person listen? NEVER! She seems to think she knows better.

This is something I really hate. People think that because you are just a customer you surely couldnt know more than the person selling the item. It reminds me of a trip to Korea. I like Metallica and saw a shirt for sale there for 20 bucks or something. It had Jason Newsted on there instead of Robert Trujillo. I pointed this out to the shop keeper. She gave me a VERY dirty look.

[Wage Slave]

the paint may have dried in 4 hours but it wasn't able to set properly with all the rain that followed........that's my guess anyway......let's see what the manufacturer says.

It had 30 hours before it rained so I don't think that is an explanation. In addition I put two cans on on Friday morning and then had to get another can on Friday night as coverage was worse than I estimated. I had to go to a different branch of the same chain to get the extra can as the other had sold out. I then put the new can on on Saturday morning. The new can had about 5 hours before the rain set in and it was fine. The stuff that had been on for 30 hours washed off. The weather on Friday was near perfect drying conditions.

It must be a faulty batch - whether they will admit it or not is another question. I don't even mind that really, it's the unpleasantness they always create. Over small things like this I am used to an attitude to customer service that is no quibble. For whatever reason this hasn't worked out for you, we are sorry about that and how can we put it right?

[Wage Slave]

Customer service in Japan is all about fake smiles and acting like a helium-sucking robot; it has nothing to do with the concept of "Let's make it right." You cease to be the customer once you've made the purchase.

Exactly. There is the bowing and scraping of course if that floats anyone's boat.

[ShonaiBen]

the paint may have dried in 4 hours but it wasn't able to set properly with all the rain that followed........that's my guess anyway......let's see what the manufacturer says.

It had 30 hours before it rained so I don't think that is an explanation. In addition I put two cans on on Friday morning and then had to get another can on Friday night as coverage was worse than I estimated. I had to go to a different branch of the same chain to get the extra can as the other had sold out. I then put the new can on on Saturday morning. The new can had about 5 hours before the rain set in and it was fine. The stuff that had been on for 30 hours washed off. The weather on Friday was near perfect drying conditions.

It must be a faulty batch - whether they will admit it or not is another question. I don't even mind that really, it's the unpleasantness they always create. Over small things like this I am used to an attitude to customer service that is no quibble. For whatever reason this hasn't worked out for you, we are sorry about that and how can we put it right?

shit......30 hours before the rain started eh.......sounds like you're right about the bad batch then.......they won't admit to that though........they probably will blame you for not proprerly following instructions and properly preparing the surface before painting........i'm not saying that you did this but I am sure they will........

[allblacks]

If you let them come and inspect it that is exactly what they will say. Im afraid the whole situation is your fault no matter what you say. As was the documents for shipping I was talking about. Its my fault because I didnt hold her hand through the whole thing and she cant properly think for herself.

[Wage Slave]

Well you were right. Phoned the maker (It's a very big company) and Detective Inspector Knacker of the Yard was on the case immediately. After listening carefully to our particular case he declared there were three possible causes of paint not sticking to the wall and our case must be one of them. 1. Surface not clean 2. Existing paint in very poor condition and peeling off taking the new paint with it 3. Damp in the wall lifting the paint. We pointed out that none of these were relevant to our problem. In our case the wall was power-washed a couple of days earlier, the existing paint is almost worn away by the weather over 20 years but sound and anyway the new paint literally washed off the wall in the rain 30 hours after it had been applied. It didn't blister or fall off in flakes. He repeated that it must be one of the the causes he had already outlined. He had no explanation for the fact that paint from (presumably) a different batch applied 24 hours later was fine so that fact was ignored.

We told him that we had photographs and asked if he would like to look at them. He said he would accept photographs and supplied his email address. Sent him an email reiterating the key facts and attached the pictures. Then we had to go out to buy more paint to repair the damage and do a few other things. When we got home there was a message from him saying he had got the email and would call back again later. He didn't and he didn't simply reply to the email we sent with the pictures.

No doubt about it eh? These salaryman types are world beaters at running their companies efficiently and well. The very reason Japan did so well and will rise again are these guys slaving away at their desks until all hours every day.

[Raelene]

You cease to be the customer once you've made the purchase.

Exactly. This is something that has been preying on my mind for a few days now. Last week I went to buy a raincoat at a department store, and was really impressed with the lady who served me there - she went out of her way to help me, brought me various coats in various styles, helped me try them on, chatted as though we were best friends. Finally I made my choice, and paid for it (30,000 yen, for what it's worth). As soon as I handed over the money, her demeanour changed completely, and she acted like she couldn't wait to get me out of there, almost as if I was suddenly an annoying inconvenience to her. I couldn't believe the sudden change in her attitude, it was like a lightbulb had been switched off! I'd heard similar stories from a few Japanese friends, but I never thought it would happen to me.

I'm not saying that the service is perfect in other countries, but at least it's consistent and you know what you are dealing with. If the salespeople are incompetent or greedy, then they stay that way throughout the sales process. And if they are caring and considerate, they do the same. But they rarely change sides on you after a sale has been made.

Quite a disappointing experience.

[Spastic_Tactician]

I disagree. I personally find the service BEFORE sale to be mostly atrocious.
Me: After browsing the goods and or services you have displayed for sale in your establishment, I have decided to purchase this one.
Salesperson: One moment please. Sorry. We don't have any of those to sell you. We don't carry that item anymore.
Me:Then. Why. On. Earth. Is. It. On. Display???? <chokes back fury> How about one of these instead?
Salesperson: Yes. We have one in stock. We can have it delivered to you after an unreasonably long delay. You may not transport it yourself.
Me: Are you intentionally trying to convince me NOT to purchase any of your goods and or services?
Salesperson: Why... Whatever do you mean? You are an extremely valued customer. How can I help you? <Bow, scrape>

[MacGyver]

I disagree. I personally find the service BEFORE sale to be mostly atrocious.
Me: After browsing the goods and or services you have displayed for sale in your establishment, I have decided to purchase this one.
Salesperson: One moment please. Sorry. We don't have any of those to sell you. We don't carry that item anymore.
Me:Then. Why. On. Earth. Is. It. On. Display???? <chokes back fury> How about one of these instead?
Salesperson: Yes. We have one in stock. We can have it delivered to you after an unreasonably long delay. You may not transport it yourself.
Me: Are you intentionally trying to convince me NOT to purchase any of your goods and or services?
Salesperson: Why... Whatever do you mean? You are an extremely valued customer. How can I help you? <Bow, scrape>

Sounds about right.

Also the total inflexibility pisses me off. I'm sure I've mentioned it before on LJ but my mum was in town a few years back and she has celiac disease. We were in Nagoya with my sis-in-law and her family and we went to Bikkuri Donkey being a family restaurant with a fair range of foods on their menu. We asked the waitress if they could do a salad, any salad, without the dressing already on it. After a brief "eeeeetooo" and "mmmmmm" she excuses herself and disappears for a short while, presumably to talk to her manager. She comes back and says "No I'm sorry we can't do that as all salads already have the dressings on them." Right away that sounded like BS to me cause as everyone knows if you leave dressing on salad for any period of time the salad becomes soggy. So I said "My mother has an allergy in which she is allergic to flour so she can't eat salad dressing." (Celiac is not an allergy and I didn't bother saying celiac as I knew she prolly wouldn't know what that is.) So she then excuses herself again and after a short period, although longer than you'd think for such a simple request, and comes back and tells us she can do this salad in this way (or some such; my memory is sketchy on exactly what she said). So finally we get a salad, a very basic green salad, with no salad on it. Now I don't mind that it was a simple salad but basically that was the best they could do in the circumstances. Oh, and it came with dressing on the side....FFS. What part of we don't want the dressing don't you understand????

So yeah in the end we got what we wanted but it took longer, far longer, than it should have and was much harder than it should have been. Now imagine that you are someone with special dietary needs like my mum and have to put up with that EVERYWHERE YOU GO.... To be fair there were some places that went the extra inch for us (I wouldn't go as far as saying extra mile) but on the whole it was a frustrating experience....

[Wage Slave]

The company is Nippon Paint. They cannot explain why two cans of their paint didn't dry anywhere near properly. They cannot explain why a third can did dry to spec on the same wall. They were happy to spend about an hour on the phone arguing the toss but they are not prepared to offer any remedy. It's not as if their paint is anything to write home about compared with the products on offer in other countries, you have a choice of about 7 colours as opposed to hundreds and it costs about $20 a litre. Behind the rest of the world and falling further and further behind.

[allblacks]

The paint in my laundry has started to come off in places too. We washed the walls in prep but didnt take the wall paper off before we did it. That is my fault. One other room had a far better result because we took the wall paper off first.

Inside and outside are completely different stories. It does sound like you got the palm off though. Take them to Choutei if it bothers you. Surely they would rather settle it than have their name dragged there.

[Wage Slave]

Thanks ABs. Life's a bit too short I think. It's not a big deal. At stake is perhaps 2,000 Yen in extra paint, an extra half day of work and some considerable upset/inconvenience. That's partly why I find the attitude so hard to fathom. Why spend money arguing and effectively accusing your customers of lying when you can send them away happy, and not badmouthing you, for less?

At some stage in the early nineties Japanese companies became decoupled from the global economy and all most of them have done since is fall further and further behind.

I still wonder about paint. Why aren't the international brands here? Where are the colour charts and mixing machines?

[allblacks]

I bet you a 1000 yen theres protectionism on paint. Dulux need not come here.

Perhaps you needed to ask them if they were calling you a liar. I dunno. Lately confrontation seems to work when Im faced with something. Did you try asking for the guys boss? As soon as he wouldnt help that's what I would have done.

[Mogura]

You cease to be the customer once you've made the purchase.

Exactly...

What I meant by my statement is that you only get arguably good customer service to the point where the sale is made. In other words, there is no effort to cultivate a long-term relationship that would mutually benefit both parties. Japanese companies would rather fuck over the customer in order to save a few yen rather than take a short-term financial hit in order to make things right in an effort to ensure repeat business from a satisfied customer.

Case in point, when I go for a coffee I usually elect the small size. One day my coffeeshop said that they were all out of small-sized cups--would it be okay if they served my coffee in a large-sized cups? Sure, no prob. I get my coffee in a large cup, except with the exact same volume that is used for a small size. The cup looks half-full (no pun intended), which kinda irks me. I mean the fact that the coffeeshop is out of small-sized cups is their problem, not mine, and would it have cost them an arm and a leg to fill the large cup properly? I suppose there is no obligation for them to give me a large coffee for the price of a small, but the way they went about them has them coming off like cheapskates (tarnishing my impression of them). Anyone who has ever ordered a drink without ice can probably understand where I'm coming from.

[MacGyver]

Anyone who has ever ordered a drink without ice can probably understand where I'm coming from.

But I think this is not the same argument.

The cup looks half-full (no pun intended), which kinda irks me. I mean the fact that the coffeeshop is out of small-sized cups is their problem, not mine, and would it have cost them an arm and a leg to fill the large cup properly?

I think you are missing a very important point here though Mogs. What happens if I order a small coffee cause I only want a small serving? And then you give me a large serving? Now granted some people, like yourself (and to be fair me too) would be happy about this but I think you might be surprised to hear that there would be a fair number who would complain. More isn't necessarily better to some people. I was gonna say this is particularly true for Japanese peeps but then I remembered an American mate who cries blue murder if he doesn't get exactly what he wanted even if what he got was a better deal than what he ordered for the same price.

[Mogura]

The cup looks half-full (no pun intended), which kinda irks me. I mean the fact that the coffeeshop is out of small-sized cups is their problem, not mine, and would it have cost them an arm and a leg to fill the large cup properly?

I think you are missing a very important point here though Mogs. What happens if I order a small coffee cause I only want a small serving? And then you give me a large serving? Now granted some people, like yourself (and to be fair me too) would be happy about this but I think you might be surprised to hear that there would be a fair number who would complain. More isn't necessarily better to some people. I was gonna say this is particularly true for Japanese peeps but then I remembered an American mate who cries blue murder if he doesn't get exactly what he wanted even if what he got was a better deal than what he ordered for the same price.

I should have mentioned that they explained the situation beforehand (that they were out of small cups) and asked me if it would be okay if they used a large one. But point taken...

[steki47]

What I meant by my statement is that you only get arguably good customer service to the point where the sale is made. In other words, there is no effort to cultivate a long-term relationship that would mutually benefit both parties. Japanese companies would rather fuck over the customer in order to save a few yen rather than take a short-term financial hit in order to make things right in an effort to ensure repeat business from a satisfied customer.

The irony is that this is the opposite of everything I have read about the culture before coming here. "Japanese prefer long-term business relationships." "They will eat a short-term hit to maintain a long relationship."

Still scratching my head on that one.

[sirwanksalot]

. "Japanese prefer long-term business relationships." "They will eat a short-term hit to maintain a long relationship."

Still scratching my head on that one.

Long term business relationship is the paint manufacturer and the store selling it. The hit is Wage Slave.

[angryboy]

Case in point, when I go for a coffee I usually elect the small size. One day my coffeeshop said that they were all out of small-sized cups--would it be okay if they served my coffee in a large-sized cups? Sure, no prob. I get my coffee in a large cup, except with the exact same volume that is used for a small size. The cup looks half-full (no pun intended), which kinda irks me. I mean the fact that the coffeeshop is out of small-sized cups is their problem, not mine, and would it have cost them an arm and a leg to fill the large cup properly? I suppose there is no obligation for them to give me a large coffee for the price of a small, but the way they went about them has them coming off like cheapskates (tarnishing my impression of them). Anyone who has ever ordered a drink without ice can probably understand where I'm coming from.

Come on Mogs .... I think you are complaining about nothing there.You got what you ordered albeit in a different sized package so
where does this fit into the argument?

[Kuronama]

Case in point, when I go for a coffee I usually elect the small size. One day my coffeeshop said that they were all out of small-sized cups--would it be okay if they served my coffee in a large-sized cups? Sure, no prob. I get my coffee in a large cup, except with the exact same volume that is used for a small size. The cup looks half-full (no pun intended), which kinda irks me. I mean the fact that the coffeeshop is out of small-sized cups is their problem, not mine, and would it have cost them an arm and a leg to fill the large cup properly? I suppose there is no obligation for them to give me a large coffee for the price of a small, but the way they went about them has them coming off like cheapskates (tarnishing my impression of them). Anyone who has ever ordered a drink without ice can probably understand where I'm coming from.

Come on Mogs .... I think you are complaining about nothing there.You got what you ordered albeit in a different sized package so
where does this fit into the argument?

I understand what Mogs is getting at here. I think the point he's making here is that staff/companies (at least in the retails service sector) never really seem to go the extra mile; exactly the minimum and what is expected, and NOTHING more. I, too, would find a small serving in a large cup strange, especially since they ran out of cups (their problem as he pointed out) of the right size.

Today I went to that cafe Italian Tomato (first time since being in Japan). Had a bowl of pasta with pretty much a single spoonful of sauce and a regular coffee. At least the price was only 620 yen, cuz anything more and I woulda been pissed. Anyway, I took my time with the coffee and did a little reading, but the pasta was done, and so the bowl and tray were sitting there for a good 20-30 minutes. I know there was a sign that said please bring your tray to the front (like every other place in Japan thats not a sit down restaurant), but the tray was there for the time I mentioned. Once I left, I proceeded to take the tray and the young staff dude took it from my hands with a big ass smile shortly before I laid it down where I was supposed to. Here's my question: If the dude easily had the time to do it there, would it have been so hard to simply walk the extra 10 steps 20 minutes earlier and take it???!! It woulda been beyond protocol and "going the extra mile" - or in this case, an extra 10 effin steps!! Whatever... 10 more days of this non-sense

[steki47]

I think the point he's making here is that staff/companies (at least in the retails service sector) never really seem to go the extra mile; exactly the minimum and what is expected, and NOTHING more.

Not to defend this, but I can understand their point. If they do something extra/nice for one person, everyone will want it. Also, if they change anything, no matter how trivial, they can get in trouble with their managers. That's why they blow a fuse if ask for no tomatoes on a salad, they can't do anything without the manager's approval. (Plus, what kind of civilization would they be if people could make requests and be satisfied with life? )

My ex told me a story about an employee meeting at Mikimoto where an older lady told a story about making some change to please a customer (in the cafe, something stupid and trivial, but I can't remember the details). She looked pleased to tell the story and the other workers praised her for "quick thinking".

Later, the manager gave the lady a stern warning for breaking the rules.

[angryboy]

Case in point, when I go for a coffee I usually elect the small size. One day my coffeeshop said that they were all out of small-sized cups--would it be okay if they served my coffee in a large-sized cups? Sure, no prob. I get my coffee in a large cup, except with the exact same volume that is used for a small size. The cup looks half-full (no pun intended), which kinda irks me. I mean the fact that the coffeeshop is out of small-sized cups is their problem, not mine, and would it have cost them an arm and a leg to fill the large cup properly? I suppose there is no obligation for them to give me a large coffee for the price of a small, but the way they went about them has them coming off like cheapskates (tarnishing my impression of them). Anyone who has ever ordered a drink without ice can probably understand where I'm coming from.

Come on Mogs .... I think you are complaining about nothing there.You got what you ordered albeit in a different sized package so
where does this fit into the argument?

I understand what Mogs is getting at here. I think the point he's making here is that staff/companies (at least in the retails service sector) never really seem to go the extra mile; exactly the minimum and what is expected, and NOTHING more. I, too, would find a small serving in a large cup strange, especially since they ran out of cups (their problem as he pointed out) of the right size.

Today I went to that cafe Italian Tomato (first time since being in Japan). Had a bowl of pasta with pretty much a single spoonful of sauce and a regular coffee. At least the price was only 620 yen, cuz anything more and I woulda been pissed. Anyway, I took my time with the coffee and did a little reading, but the pasta was done, and so the bowl and tray were sitting there for a good 20-30 minutes. I know there was a sign that said please bring your tray to the front (like every other place in Japan thats not a sit down restaurant), but the tray was there for the time I mentioned. Once I left, I proceeded to take the tray and the young staff dude took it from my hands with a big ass smile shortly before I laid it down where I was supposed to. Here's my question: If the dude easily had the time to do it there, would it have been so hard to simply walk the extra 10 steps 20 minutes earlier and take it???!! It woulda been beyond protocol and "going the extra mile" - or in this case, an extra 10 effin steps!! Whatever... 10 more days of this non-sense

I see exactly what he is getting at I just disagree completely that it is any kind of issue.In my mind if I get what I pay for that is all
I care about.I don`t give a toss if the packaging is big or small.And while it would have been immensely nice of them to size up it I
wouldn`t think anything of it if they didn`t.I`m not entitled to it nor would I expect it.
And having worked at KFC years ago I can tell you at that time we were expressly forbidden from varying anything on the menu.
We could not make a burger without mayo or lettuce.It was all about stock control.So maybe every time that small coffee button is
hit it records that much as being sold.Head office keep a very tight tab on these things.Too many discrepancies and they came
down on us.So,I never complain at fast food joints anywhere in the world
As for not taking your dishes away,I have worked in coffee shops,cafes and fast food and often a customer takes that as a sign
to get the F out and would often get snarky about it.
And as Steki said , you offer a person your hand and they will often take your arm.Better to not set a precedent now than to
try and backtrack later.

[allblacks]

Oh so you like cold fries eh? I never understand that here. Who would want to eat cold chips? Japanese never complain about it. I always take them back and get hot ones.

[angryboy]

Oh so you like cold fries eh?

No way! Cold fries are not part of the deal.I take them back too.

[Kuronama]

I think the point he's making here is that staff/companies (at least in the retails service sector) never really seem to go the extra mile; exactly the minimum and what is expected, and NOTHING more.

Not to defend this, but I can understand their point. If they do something extra/nice for one person, everyone will want it. Also, if they change anything, no matter how trivial, they can get in trouble with their managers. That's why they blow a fuse if ask for no tomatoes on a salad, they can't do anything without the manager's approval. (Plus, what kind of civilization would they be if people could make requests and be satisfied with life? )

My ex told me a story about an employee meeting at Mikimoto where an older lady told a story about making some change to please a customer (in the cafe, something stupid and trivial, but I can't remember the details). She looked pleased to tell the story and the other workers praised her for "quick thinking".

Later, the manager gave the lady a stern warning for breaking the rules.

I understand. People are genearlly childish that way - especially group-oriented Japan, where so many people here seem unable to mind their own effin business here, and are constantly watching every little thing around them, as if they are a human security camera - "they got that, why can I??"

And I get the thing about the junior staff. Im frustrated with the system, and the managers, not the grunt high school or uni student. If anything, I feel sorry for them having to be raised in such an authoritarian-like society, ruled by clueless iron-fisted managers (eg.Kikukawa, Sahashi, many others Im sure)

[Kuronama]

I see exactly what he is getting at I just disagree completely that it is any kind of issue.In my mind if I get what I pay for that is all
I care about.I don`t give a toss if the packaging is big or small.And while it would have been immensely nice of them to size up it I
wouldn`t think anything of it if they didn`t.I`m not entitled to it nor would I expect it.
And having worked at KFC years ago I can tell you at that time we were expressly forbidden from varying anything on the menu.
We could not make a burger without mayo or lettuce.It was all about stock control.So maybe every time that small coffee button is
hit it records that much as being sold.Head office keep a very tight tab on these things.Too many discrepancies and they came
down on us.So,I never complain at fast food joints anywhere in the world
As for not taking your dishes away,I have worked in coffee shops,cafes and fast food and often a customer takes that as a sign
to get the F out and would often get snarky about it.
And as Steki said , you offer a person your hand and they will often take your arm.Better to not set a precedent now than to
try and backtrack later.

I know what youre saying. Large fast-food chains seem to be run by nazis the world over. But the degree to which they will nickel and dime you here just seems to be so much more. Perfect example: Subway. In Canada at least, when ur stamp card is full, you get a free sub. Here, when your stamp card is full, u get a free sub ONLY AFTER you have bought a "regular" (more like child) size 200 yen drink, which is usually 75% ice (cuz ALL machines are behind the counter here - 7/11 slurpee machine in Suidobashi, all fast food chains ive seen - save for places like Gusto and Saizeriya).

I, too, have spent time working in the service sector (Nova aside ) at a full service gas station for 4 years when i was in highschool/university. I understand what its like to be the staff. I also never get angry with staff, unless theyre just being an absolute dick (forunately ive never had that experience). I think Ive simply come to the realization that I cant really handle being in a place where people are NOT allowed to make any individual decisions/use their best judgement without getting approval from KFCs pres first, and MUST BE absolute drones ALL the time. Returning from my 3 week honeymoon and visiting 5 countries in SE Asia, where people are warm, welcoming and seem to serve u with a genuine smile, has only confirmed those thoughts..

[allblacks]

Tokyo 7-11s have slurpees?! Bugger! We have nothing of the sort here.