The end of our love song

[Redrum]

It seems Mrs Redrum would like us to part company. So that's that. After packing up from the U.S and heading over to Japan 5 years ago here I am starring down the barrel of my second divorce. Yes it's sad, she's giving me the whole "I didn't know how a hard an international marriage would be. I just don't understand you" bit.
Here's my question. I'm blindsided by her whole revalation. Have any of you been married in both the U.S and Japan? The Japan end of things seems pretty cut and dry. What am I to do about desolving the legal end of thing in the U.S? Hire a lawyer is a give in but, should I contact the Japanese embassy in my home country for paperwork to send to her? WTF it's all just a mind blower. Anyone been through a similiar situation? What did you do? How are the legal end of things handled?

[Mogura]

It seems Mrs Redrum would like us to part company. So that's that. After packing up from the U.S and heading over to Japan 5 years ago here I am starring down the barrel of my second divorce. Yes it's sad, she's giving me the whole "I didn't know how a hard an international marriage would be. I just don't understand you" bit.
Here's my question. I'm blindsided by her whole revalation. Have any of you been married in both the U.S and Japan? The Japan end of things seems pretty cut and dry. What am I to do about desolving the legal end of thing in the U.S? Hire a lawyer is a give in but, should I contact the Japanese embassy in my home country for paperwork to send to her? WTF it's all just a mind blower. Anyone been through a similiar situation? What did you do? How are the legal end of things handled?

Hi Redrum,

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Was it a mutual decision, or one-sided on your wife's part? Were things okay when you were married and living in the U.S.?

Just so you know, I did start up a thread to discuss this very thing: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=256059

I don't know about the legal process of getting a divorce, such as in your case. Have you tried the U.S. Embassy website?

EDIT: A word of advice - start locking down your finances - now. You don't want to end up financing any mood swing-induced shopping sprees. Close any joint holder credit card accounts, etc. Monitor your bank accounts for any suspicious withdrawals...

[Level3]

So, has she been doing o-maiai on the side, whenever you're not around, or making excuses to get out of the house alone on weekends? Maybe she finally found an interested lame-ass, but rich 40-year-old Japanese dude with a middle-management job at a major corporation whose money she can control, with sure prospects of annual raises and bonuses until he retires, and if she cooks him the right food, his premature death from heart disease, while she collects life insurance and pension without having to be bothered with the burden of a man, will see her land happily on the final square of the game of Life, all alone, but filthy rich.

There are still plenty of women whose objective in life is to land a man with money and exploit him, it just seems that Japan still has a much higher ratio of these cold, cold bitches.

I still don't understand why some feel the need to exploit a man for years who they don't plan on sticking with, some even going so far as to marry, with full intent to get a divorce once they find their Sugar Daddy. And if they're gonna settle for a temporary husband, a gaijin man who will cook for her once in a while, actually try to please HER in bed whenever she deigns to permit him to touch her, and make life a bit more interesting is a fine way to pass the years until the Under-Assistant-West-Coast-Promo-Man for Sony Entertainment decides to settle down with her for the long boring haul to riches and a empty lonely death.

Better off without the bitch. Just hope she was hot and you enjoyed the ride while it lasted.

And remember that she's probably too shallow to even realize how miserable her life is. But YOU know it.

[angryboy]

Have a bit of fucken respect mate.That is a cunt of a post to make when you do not the circumstances.
After all it is a guys wife you are talking about.

[allblacks]

Shit mate. Im sorry to hear it. Feel like I know you cos youve been here for ages though we never went for that beer. Still. Now is as good a time as any. Anyone from south Osaka?

[Stick-Swinging Incident]

Yo, Level3... seriously man...
He said he was BLINDSIDED... meaning he didn't see it coming... Meaning he probably cares about her... and you ask him if she was cheating, call her names... seriously...

You were expecting a PC retort to your "Table manners thread"
Well this ain't PC

YOUR AN INSENSITIVE ARROGENT PRICK!

And just perhaps you MIGHT want to appologise to him ya know!

[InTheColdLightOfDay]

Not that it means anything coming from a bloke you've never met or even spoken to, but just wanted to chip in another "sorry to hear that".
Hope everything works out OK for you mate.

[Will]

As others have said that's sad news Redrum but I hope you can pull through it. If its any reassurance then you are not the first and certainly will not be the last gaijin to hear the ‘difficulties in international marriage’ line and I’m willing to bet that most of us here have heard it before or at least will do in the future. I know I get it every couple of months at least.

What makes it so annoying is that its such a weak excuse but try talking things through with the wife one more time if you can and perhaps give her some space to think it over before committing to a decision. We all know how fickle some Japanese women can be.

Here's to sorting it all out mate...

[T.D.]

Really sorry to hear the news. I'm on my 2nd, the first was American and really, it seems easier this time around, but it's the 2nd for us both so I guess we just knew what we wanted and what to expect.

As for the divorce, I printed out the documents from the county courthouse website and only had to shell out cash for processing and a notary. If you were married in the US it is likely the same despite her being a Japanese citizen. The US Consulate website may have a page on this process as well, or maybe you can call them and set up a time to meet with someone for advice. The Osaka Consulate seemed to be pretty helpful whenever I needed anything. The Nagoya office is staffed by like, one person and they sucked.

If you need anything, let me know.

[Level3]

Some poeple offer sympathy with milk, cookies, a warm blanket or a pint of ice cream
and warm fuzzy words.

Other people do so with a bottle of whiskey and a glass-half-full attitude.

Both styles come from the same place.

Some people appreciate the first style, some appreciate the second, and some apparently think
the second style is heartless and cruel and feel the need to say so.

Yet alcohol still sells well.

[Redrum]

T.D thats what I figured. The thing is if she's serious I don't plan on sticking around here all that long. I thoght about maybe finding a weekly mansion and sticking it out til my Visa runs out. But fuck that noise, I'm alittle older then alot of you (40) and if this is how its gonna be I want to just get started rebuilding back home.

Level 3 no complaints from me about your post. Just for the record she did start working a new job about 5 months ago and does go out with "the gang from work" more latley (about twice a month). She also stop wearing her wedding ring to work (It has a set of raised diamonds on it) because "When she's typing the ring turns and hurts the inside of her fingers" OK right? She also has a new taste in music. All that said I have been checking the cell phone on the fly and can't find anything there, then again she could have one I don't know about.

Since she told me she wants to do this shes been very nice to me even trying to rub up on me last night 3 hours after making her final descision. Maybe just wants a little more gaijin cock, who knows? Fuck man going home, gonna have to live with Mom while I get things sorted. Haven't even told my family yet. Last I spoke to them everything was fine. It's going to be a shock to them. I haven't signed the papers yet, holding out for a bit more. See how the next couple days play out.

[Mogura]

Just for the record she did start working a new job about 5 months ago and does go out with "the gang from work" more latley (about twice a month). She also stop wearing her wedding ring to work (It has a set of raised diamonds on it) because "When she's typing the ring turns and hurts the inside of her fingers" OK right? She also has a new taste in music. All that said I have been checking the cell phone on the fly and can't find anything there, then again she could have one I don't know about.

Hmm... nothing conclusive there, but behavioral changes, no matter how seemingly insignificant, are things to keep tabs on. When she goes out with the gang from work, does she come home with her hair/skin/clothes smelling bad enough to induce lung cancer (normal), or does she come home smelling like roses (well, fresh body soap to be more specific)? I don't think you should become paranoid, and start accusing her of things for which you have no conclusive proof, but you should boost the sensitivity of your radar.

Sounds like her job could be the big change factor that is influencing her decision. Is her job stressful? Does she complain about work a lot? What sort of co-worker friends does she keep? Maybe she fell in with a crowd of bitchy, perpetually unhappy, obatarian types (present in every company) that have a big bitch up on a daily basis about their own failed marriages, and you know easily influenced Japanese women are.

Just some ideas...

[Redrum]

Thanks for the advice both in this thread and special hats off to those who PM'ed.

I'm in and out all day today working (Privates) but there are a few other things that maybe relevant and also some new developments.

One important thing to note is we learned a couple months ago that having kids would be a very diffacult. We've been using fertility drugs for over a year and it hasn't work so now the procedure would have to be more complex and EXTREMLY expensive. The problem is with her body, my swimmers are fine.

#2 She quit smoking over 2 years ago but I noticed a pack of mine missing from the carton and asked her and she own'ed up to it. Apparently she's been smoking again for about a month.

#3 Is a very crucial point. When I called on her shit and started talking about making travel arrangments and saying I wanted to start shipping my stuff as soon as possible she started singing a different tune. This is total bullshit. I feel happy that she's maybe reconsidering but utterly disgusted that she would fuck with my emotions like that. I for sure NOW can't make any real descision as I didn't sleep much last night, maybe 2 hourss. Plus I'm working today and a bit distracted as well as riding my bike to my lesson in this unbearable heat. Yeah, I'm pretty miserable.

[angryboy]

You probably already know this, but it's a bad, bad sign when someone starts regularly taking off his or her wedding ring when they go to work or go out. This, in combination with the new taste in music and starting smoking again, strongly suggests that there is another guy in the picture.

Hope everything works out for you one way or the other.

It doesn`t suggest anything other than what you imagine it to.
Maybe her reason for the ring was exactly what she said it was.
New taste in music could mean she discovered a new band or genre.
She used to smoke so maybe she gave into the desire to start again.
She has fertility problems so maybe she figures she may as well smoke.
Or maybe she just wants a few changes in her life and unfortunately divorce is one of them as well as all the above.
Seriously everyone, just offer advice and support and don`t be judgemental

[jon]

Thanks for the advice both in this thread and special hats off to those who PM'ed.

I'm in and out all day today working (Privates) but there are a few other things that maybe relevant and also some new developments.

One important thing to note is we learned a couple months ago that having kids would be a very diffacult. We've been using fertility drugs for over a year and it hasn't work so now the procedure would have to be more complex and EXTREMLY expensive. The problem is with her body, my swimmers are fine.

#2 She quit smoking over 2 years ago but I noticed a pack of mine missing from the carton and asked her and she own'ed up to it. Apparently she's been smoking again for about a month.

#3 Is a very crucial point. When I called on her shit and started talking about making travel arrangments and saying I wanted to start shipping my stuff as soon as possible she started singing a different tune. This is total bullshit. I feel happy that she's maybe reconsidering but utterly disgusted that she would fuck with my emotions like that. I for sure NOW can't make any real descision as I didn't sleep much last night, maybe 2 hourss. Plus I'm working today and a bit distracted as well as riding my bike to my lesson in this unbearable heat. Yeah, I'm pretty miserable.

So sorry to hear about your problems. Have you checked out all the clinical options? Don't rush into anything. If she really wants it, she will do the work for you.

[Redrum]

Nothing to see here.
Warning**** if your married to or have ever been in s erious relationship with a Japanese female. This post will sound so famliar you'll wanna kill yourself

All the nonsense I endured over the past 24 hours, well really the nonsense lasted about 8 hours was all a Power play by Mrs. RR. I still don't have it all figured out but she was bluffing for some reason. When I started talking about how to get my shit home, and my airplane ticket she folded faster then Superman on laundry day. I don't want to blame myself but fella 's that fact of the matter is, if your women is pissed she has a reason to blame you. Maybe I missed a cue to say "Sorry I understand how you feel" That shits not my style.

I never did even come close to busting her with another dude if she was fucking around, God bless her heart I love her but, she's not that bright and I would have figured it out.

The smoking? Big deal, quiting is tough even years later.
The ring hurting her? I did see the marks on her fingers and she did/does still wear it on weekends.
Hanginf with co-workers? Coming home way drunk but at a reasonable hour...like 11pm not 2am

Maybe I'm just making excuses to pacify myself but I only questioned the above behaviors after our encounter last night. Thank you all for your support and information. IT's amazing to me that a group of people I never even knew seem to care enough to be supportive. LJ blows the doors off most "Gaijin in Japan" websites.

Maybe I'm being an absolute retard and will end up heartbroken and going home at 50 yers old instead of a 40 year old but.....? Well you know the rest.

[ShonaiBen]

Well.shit.
That really sucks.Sorry to hear the news Redrum.
I hope you can get things sorted and remember better days await you in the future I am sure.
Best of luck eh.....

[Redrum]

]

So sorry to hear about your problems. Have you checked out all the clinical options? Don't rush into anything. If she really wants it, she will do the work for you.

Dude we have exhausted ever avenue you could imagine. I know other LJ'er's don't want to hear the details but I have jerkoff into a cup in a doctors office that was then shot into her baby making junk. Trust me we've been trying for years.
. The next (expensive step) would be laying side by side and having my dudes, pumped into the direction of her girls. This kind of procedure costs like $6000 (American) and there are no guarantees.
I do believe this is a huge wieght on the wife's shoulders. She feels useless, an unproductive member of the Japanese female species. I have been very?? what's the word??? Layback about the whole thing. Maybe that's fuckin with her brain? Who knows. I do really love her and wish we could reproduce but it's just not in the cards for us.As I said earlier I slept 2 hours last night. I worked a full (For private teachers) 4 hours today (Don't forget about prep and file time that takes at least another hour) bringing it to a gruelling 5 hours. Add travel time and hell it equals ekaiwa standards. Saturdays are BUSY.

[sirwanksalot]

She might feel sorry for you/pity for herself and want you to go and be with a woman who can bear children??? Maybe if you both can put the idea of having children behind you then you could concentrate on the relationship. Or there are plenty of healthy children to adopt. Anyway, it sucks to be in such a situation and I wish you best of luck regarding your happiness.

[Mogura]

Dude we have exhausted ever avenue you could imagine. I know other LJ'er's don't want to hear the details but I have jerkoff into a cup in a doctors office that was then shot into her baby making junk. Trust me we've been trying for years.
. The next (expensive step) would be laying side by side and having my dudes, pumped into the direction of her girls. This kind of procedure costs like $6000 (American) and there are no guarantees.
I do believe this is a huge wieght on the wife's shoulders. She feels useless, an unproductive member of the Japanese female species. I have been very?? what's the word??? Layback about the whole thing. Maybe that's fuckin with her brain? Who knows. I do really love her and wish we could reproduce but it's just not in the cards for us.As I said earlier I slept 2 hours last night. I worked a full (For private teachers) 4 hours today (Don't forget about prep and file time that takes at least another hour) bringing it to a gruelling 5 hours. Add travel time and hell it equals ekaiwa standards. Saturdays are BUSY.

When you say that you have exhausted every avenue, are you referring to Japanese doctors, U.S. doctors, or both? If you haven't fully explored the U.S. doctor avenue, then it may be worth moving back to the States for a year or so to do whatever needs to be done. Fertility science in the U.S. is light years ahead of its counterpart in Japan. It might be worth exploring...

[Will]

I wonder do Japanese women play the divorce card as easily with Japanese guys as they do gaijin ones? Or does the usual ‘well he’s a gaijin so I can use all sort of dumb logic’ effect come into play?

Redrum’s warning was right, his wife’s reaction did (at least to me) sound all too familiar and I’m willing to bet that quite a few more of us could at least relate to what he said. At least now things seem to be slightly better but I can sympathise by how on edge you must be feeling right now. I’ve been there myself a few times and getting back into that comfort zone can be a tough challenge for both of you.

I think all you can do now is reassure her that you love her, children or not, and remind her that a life without you around would be worse if anything. Good luck mate, I hope it all works out.

[Tall Tall Tree]

I'm with Wanks… have you considered adoption? Adoptive parents are common saints; it really is an amazing act of love to take responsibility for a child whose parents could not, for whatever reason. The kid won't have you and your wife's genetic material, but I bet they'll love you all the same. (If nothing else, it ought to be much cheaper than these expensive fertility dances…)

…Once you get things worked out with the lady, anyway.

[jon]

I'm with Wanks… have you considered adoption? Adoptive parents are common saints; it really is an amazing act of love to take responsibility for a child whose parents could not, for whatever reason. The kid won't have you and your wife's genetic material, but I bet they'll love you all the same. (If nothing else, it ought to be much cheaper than these expensive fertility dances…)

…Once you get things worked out with the lady, anyway.

I hate to say it, but in my opinion having kids after 40 is asking for trouble unless your financial position is exceptionally good. The expense, particularly in Japan, not to mention the drain on energies that are already beginning to deplete is significant. You need to bear in mind that your kid will still be in university when you turn 60. That should be a time when you are starting to wind down and relax, but you won't be able to easily with kids who may continue to depend on you (depending on how their studies go) for some time after that. If your wife is a lot younger than you, then that is a problem, because her feelings will be different. However, if possible (and I know every case is different) I would suggest that both of you try to reconcile to a shared view of how to enjoy together some of the many compensations of a double income without children.

[Redrum]

Jon, Your spot on Mrs. R is indeed about 10 years younger then me.
I've been processing everything now for the past ...about 24 hours in my previous post I mentioned it was just a "Power play". It was! But here's what is messing me up now.
When dealing with women in the past I have always been a ..."I give you once" kinda a guy. Even after 5 years (a short time in the grand scheme of life) Part of me wants to say, Lets finnish now before we even start. 5 years ain't shit. As time goes on, since the other day my reasoning skills are starting to focus.
It's true she settled down yesterday after I called her bluff and was cool for a bit. Then she got very cold. I guess you could say she doesn't want to admit defeat. She started up with the whole "Well, I haven't made up my mind yet" thing again. This after I told her I "Well if divorce is what you want that's fine, I don't want it but so be it...what airline do you think I should take home?" FUCK< I'm a little drunk at the moment and can't figure out what my point is...apologies.

OK I'm really gonna try... MY POINT IS (sidebar note before I rant..I really do love her) What's excpected of me? Should I really have to deal with being jerked around? Fuck I just wish she would make up her mind. I would love to stay here and build a life but, at the same time I could go home and build a life too. At this point it's almost mental abuse (God Bless you alcohol). Part of me says, "Red, you made a commitment to love and honor this women forever" The other part says "Red, Fuck this, what are you doing? It's jus a girl, who's been fucking with you the past couple days,,,RUN!!"

I don't really need advice on the above comments, just needed to vent. Keep in mind it's a "drunk post" Thanks again to all of you.

[sos]

Redrum,
I am really sorry to see you in pain. It sounds like you really do love her.

I don't know her, but just me, maybe she is confused. She doesn't know what she wants.
Maybe she felt everything was too predictable and is looking for some excitement (it doesn't mean she wants to have a sexual affair, but an affair with life--something new and exciting).
She wants to change but when you announced you are going back to the States, she got scared as she isn't sure how much change she wants. Does this make sense?


If you really love her and your marriage (I am not talking about loving her too much to let her go), if you enjoy being married to her, I would suggest staying in Japan. Try a temporary separation. Give it 2 or 3 months. Being separated you will have your own space to work out what you want to do.

Or, (again if you want to save your marriage) ask her to come back to the States with you. A change in scenary can help both of you see things in a new light.

I do have 1 question....are your wife and you living with your in-laws? I remember before you wrote they won the lottery and do not have to worry to about finance. This leads me to think your wife got her job to bring something new into her life. What do your in-laws think about the impending divorce? Parents have a nasty way of getting involved in things that aren't their concern. If they seem to be part of the problem, you could suggest moving to another part of Japan so you two can have your "alone" time.

[sos]

I feel bad about your wife not being able to have kids, but being a mom myself, there are times I wish I didn't have my son. There are so many things you and your wife can do that would be difficult, if not impossible with kids.

1. go out drinking in smoky izakaya's until the wee hours
2. go to the movies
3. go for long drives (only child lasts only 2 or 3 hours before howling)
4. sleep in (he wakes up at 6am)
5. go on hikes
6. enjoy water sports (I really wanted to go parasailing)
7. enjoy any sport (skating, skiing)
8. walk thru antique stores or other expensive delicate itemed store peacefully
9. leave junk lying around your house
10. taking a shower or brushing your teeth, at times being able to go to the bathroom when you want

There are more things I am sure Kuni or others can add on.

There was a job I wanted to try for recently but I found out it required a week's training in Germany. Except I couldn't leave my son for 1 week.

There are some decisions that are out of our hands and we have to make the best of the situation. I feel for your wife and if possible, try to get her to talk to someone (professional) or a net community.

[Stick-Swinging Incident]

I do have 1 question....are your wife and you living with your in-laws? I remember before you wrote they won the lottery and do not have to worry to about finance. This leads me to think your wife got her job to bring something new into her life. What do your in-laws think about the impending divorce? Parents have a nasty way of getting involved in things that aren't their concern. If they seem to be part of the problem, you could suggest moving to another part of Japan so you two can have your "alone" time.

Good point. Even if they aren't living with you... after a friend, who do you think the wife will call when she wants to vent. And being family, their kid is usually right, even if he or she isn't. I made it clear to my wife, as much as I like and respect her parents, we will never be living with them if I can help it.
She made me smile hugely when she seemed shocked and said "NO WAY!!!"

I can't remember which comedian said this,(and I may have said it before), but its so true.

"It's good to have distant relatives close, but close relatives are good at a distance" (I recommend at least 1 hour car drive... close enough to see, but its work for everyone involved so the frequency is much less.)

Redrum, think what you need more than anything, is a long sit down with the missus. Good luck with it!

[Raelene]

At this point it's almost mental abuse.

It is mental abuse, and I should know, I've been there. A few years ago my then-fiance had a depressive episode, and put me through the same thing, and I know all too well about the emotional tug of war that you are experiencing. I went through his rough patch with him, all his "I love you, come here" and his "no go away, I don't love you after all" and his "I'm so confused, I don't know what I want anymore" (often in the space of one day, if you can imagine that). After a few weeks of this agony, I realised that my heart couldn't stand any more, and although I was heavily invested in the relationship - we'd even set a date for the wedding - I just had to get out, for both our sakes. So I bailed. It was honestly the hardest thing I'd ever done in my life. However, staying with him would've been harder. You have my sympathy.

[Mogura]

There are so many things you and your wife can do that would be difficult, if not impossible with kids.

1. go out drinking in smoky izakaya's until the wee hours
2. go to the movies
3. go for long drives (only child lasts only 2 or 3 hours before howling)
4. sleep in (he wakes up at 6am)
5. go on hikes
6. enjoy water sports (I really wanted to go parasailing)
7. enjoy any sport (skating, skiing)
8. walk thru antique stores or other expensive delicate itemed store peacefully
9. leave junk lying around your house
10. taking a shower or brushing your teeth, at times being able to go to the bathroom when you want

I had a chuckle at this. Most Japanese parents just take the muri-yari approach and do these things anyway with the kid in tow (yes, I have seen Japanese couples with babies in smoky loud izakaya's past midnight).

Add to the list of muri-yaris: travelling on long international flights, and patronizing traditionally quiet establishments such as coffeeshops, bookstores, or libraries.

Okay, rant over. Back to Redrum's issue...

[Redrum]

Redrum,
Or, (again if you want to save your marriage) ask her to come back to the States with you. A change in scenary can help both of you see things in a new light.

I do have 1 question....are your wife and you living with your in-laws? I remember before you wrote they won the lottery and do not have to worry to about finance. This leads me to think your wife got her job to bring something new into her life. What do your in-laws think about the impending divorce? Parents have a nasty way of getting involved in things that aren't their concern. If they seem to be part of the problem, you could suggest moving to another part of Japan so you two can have your "alone" time.

SOS, your a very smart lady. Here 's what's up. She mentioned (Or more like asked) "Would it be hard for us to survive in the United States?" the other day (Sunday) My answer to her and also why I quoted the 2 point's you made together was this. "You could never survive in a forgien country away from your parents" Yes we live with the in laws. Are they on either side? Hard to tell, my father in law and I kinda have an unspoken respect for each other. We talk over dinner, watch Tiger games together but have a bond of silence when it comes to anything personel. Sometimes (In the past and even now) if the wife is ragging at me he'll lift his shoulder, palms up, smiling, in a "I understand, sorry" type gesture. The mother in law on the other hand I think resemts me. Not because she believes that I have done any thing to cause pain to her daughter. She resents me because her home has become upset by the situation.

As far as them being "Lottery winners" that's true they are. Both MIL and FIL come from "Barakumin" stock. They bought the house we live in now straight up. It's a wonderful huge modern house. Are room is on the second floor, we also have a second room "Tatami floor type" that hold a good sized refridgerator and serves as a dressing and storage room. I only interact with the in laws at dinner and, in the mornings when the house is busy with everybody's activities. Basically the in laws now live a pretty standard life despite being lottery winners. Everybody works and contributes to the house hold expenses.

I don't know if this matters but my parents are extremley (Like Mom's house has a private 9 hole golf course and a runway for aircraft) wealthy.