but........you are gaijin!!

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New postby yaffle » Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:12 pm

MacGyver wrote:[wasn't so much of an analogy as a comparison. Thet is, Japanese say "There are many foreigners in Roppongi." Americans say "There are many blacks in Inglewood." The point is a classification is happening here based upon race. Those black may or may not be Americans, but that isn't the point. Americans think "Inglewood = black people" Japanese think "Roppongi = foreigners". (I think it might be Englewood but I'm not sure.)

By the way I'm not picking on Americans. The same happens in Oz but many of you wouldn't know what I was on about if I used Oz as an example.


I agree with you. I was saying that the difference is whether you would recommend it or not. A Japanese person could recommend Roppongi to another Japanese person. There are Asian (Indian subcontinent) areas of many British cities. People go there for a good curry. If an Indian person arrived in London, I would recommend Southall for that taste of home. That's all the Japanese people who recommend Roppongi are thinking, I'm sure. They're not suggesting going there because that's where foreigners ought to be.

Many do seem to believe, though, that foreigners shouldn't be able to read, speak, use chopsticks or eat food. I doubt anybody would be surprised if you said that you didn't like Roppongi.
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New postby sos » Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:49 pm

"You speak Japanese very well!"
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New postby barten » Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:50 pm

Random Japanese Dogooder: "You'll want to meet Mr. Takano. He speaks English."
Me: "Tell Mr. Takano that if he comes within 10 metres of me I'll rip his head off and 'play to bowling' with it."
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New postby sos » Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:50 pm

valve-bouncer wrote:After having a couple of days off with the 'flu one stupid slag student looked at me amazed and said "gaijins get influenza as well"......Fuck me dead.


"All foreigners have AIDS!"
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New postby yaffle » Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:34 pm

(In Japanese) 'You cannot stay in this hotel because Americans cannot speak Japanese. Or use a Japanese bath.'
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New postby sos » Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:34 pm

yaffle wrote:(In Japanese) 'You cannot stay in this hotel because Americans cannot speak Japanese. Or use a Japanese bath.'


You take baths???
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New postby sos » Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:35 pm

(from a student before she went on a homestay)
What do you mean, there are no "kotatsu" in America? Everyone uses a kotatsu!
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New postby yaffle » Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:55 pm

Do British colds make you feel unwell? When I get a cold in Japan, I get a headache and a runny nose.

(Asked by a bloke of whom it was said wouldn't have to go abroad to experience a different culture. He was a bit 'special'. )
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New postby BakaMike » Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:59 am

Smithers wrote:Oh, you vegetarain? No eat meat? Does your sex drive become lower as result?


No, only when I'm around ugly bucked toothed Japanese people with bad breath!
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New postby Guest » Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:16 am

Two 50ish J-ladies in a restaurant, sitting at the table next to Julia's:

J-Lady No. 1: "Oh, look at the kokujin using chopsticks."

J-Lady No. 2: "That's amazing."

No. 1: "Yes, and she's eating Japanese food too."

No. 2: "Unbelievable."

Julia (finishing her meal and getting up to leave): "Yes, and I can speak a little Japanese too. I can even use Japanese toilets. I'm going to my aikido lesson now. Have a nice day."
Last edited by Guest on Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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New postby Guest » Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:18 am

encarnacionjulia wrote:I can even use Japanese chopsticks.


Sorry, I meant to type "toilets," not chopsticks. My mind was still on food when I typed that!
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New postby Smurfette » Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:56 am

encarnacionjulia wrote:
encarnacionjulia wrote:I can even use Japanese chopsticks.


Sorry, I meant to type "toilets," not chopsticks. My mind was still on food when I typed that!

You can use the edit button if you see any mistakes in your messages. Look on the right side above your post.
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but......you are gaijin!!

New postby Speeed » Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:10 pm

Me: I was born in Japan.
Him: Eh.....but you are gaijin!!
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New postby yaffle » Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:46 pm

'When does your contract end?'
'I'm not a contractor, I'm a permanent employee.'
'But you are gaijin! When do you go home?'
'I'm a permanent employee. I might stay in Japan.'
'But you are gaijin! Could you work for the European office?'
'Probably, but I'm not thinking about that at the moment.'
'But you are gaijin! Europe is very nice. Why don't you want to live there?'
'Because I live in Japan.'
'But you are gaijin! Wouldn't Europe be better?'
stab stab stab, massive internal bleeding, death
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New postby nigerian_nampa » Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:27 pm

This was totally forgiveable because they were 10 year old kids. the ECC kids books have many international characters, and there`s some guy with a Spanish name or something. Let`s say his name`s Alfredo. So, on one page it shows a picture of Alfredo and the caption is `Alfredo`s studying English`. The kids all said "Ehhhh? Nande eigo benkyou shitenno? Gaijin na no ni" (Huh? Why`s he studying English? He`s a gaijin!). Their eyes widened with amazement when I explained that the guy might speak another language like Spanish. Now they always ask me `Does Mustafa speak English?` or `What language does Svend speak?` :thumbsup:
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New postby monkeypants » Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:19 pm

You mean you're not lost, confused, and need my help?
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New postby amerikajin274 » Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:50 pm

You mean you don't want to rip my clothes off? You actually want to fuck Western women, too? Chinese women? Korean? Thai? Ehhhhhhh?! I love it when J-girls turn their face so that I can't see them or duck their head down and go to sleep on the train, assuming the worst of my intentions.

Maybe YOU wouldn't, but I've heard plenty of people from the US say "That area is a black (or hispanic) neighbourhood." Perhaps they aren't foreigners (although in a hispanic area, there might be a few) but its the same thing, no?

Shit, I hear it all the time where I come from. And "that's a black neighborhood," is nothing. I usually get the uglier variant like, "Nigger town".

I don't think Japan's all that different from the rest of humanity. I think the difference is that in Western societies there is more awareness of the problem, and because of that, there's probably more of an effort, albeit slight, to do something about bias. But people are people.

I just taught a lesson on stereotypes and I think I ended up learning more in that lesson than my students did. It just got me to thinking that, as politically incorrect as this sounds, people with racial biases can still be otherwise good people. They simply lack education and cultural awareness.
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New postby Edogaijin » Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:35 pm

I just taught a lesson on stereotypes and I think I ended up learning more in that lesson than my students did. It just got me to thinking that, as politically incorrect as this sounds, people with racial biases can still be otherwise good people. They simply lack education and cultural awareness.



Is that some kind of psycholgy or social studies course you're teaching?
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New postby amerikajin274 » Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:08 am

No, it was an English lesson in which we used stereotypes as a basis for discussion. It was in retrsopect expecting a bit much of my group (lower intermediate), but they handled the exercises fairly well. It was an interesting lesson, and they seemed to get a kick out of it.

I told them at the start not to worry about offending me or saying something offensive. I knew they were going to whether I told them or not. For one thing, students don't have the ability to nuance their opinions the way they'd like, so some things come out sounding a bit crude even with the best of intentions in mind.

But as we know, it's simply the fact that Japanese people are cut off from the outside world. I'd hasten to add, however, that I doubt it's much different from any other homogenous society. It's probably not vastly different in China or Korea, though someone who's taught and lived there would be more qualified to comment on that than I. In my own experience, having lived in the somewhat regressive Deep South USA, I can say with certainty that Japanese people don't have a monopoly on bigotry and ignorance; there's plenty of it to go around.
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New postby Edogaijin » Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:16 am

Right, I wasn't trying to be a smart arse, but (I do it too), we shouldn't really worry about the topics, but about their abilities to communicate.

You can debate what color is better 'black or white', and cover the same English speaking skills without getting into Un-PC topics or getting people to voice opinions that other people in the class may disagree with.

I've got a guy who talks about his sexual exploits at the local brothel everyweek, and it offends all the ladies.

It's a 2 hour lesson where the 1st hour is free discussion. I can't stop him and he doesn't realize its not prper to talk about stuff like that.

Should I be teaching him manners or English?

(his stories are bloody funny too).

I'd love to breka the borders and teach 'General Studies, Social Sciences and other interesting topics in English... Religion & politics even... Just for the sake of the Japanese having a chance to have an opinion, but is that the job of an English teacher?

It's good that you do it in an atempt to teach English. Some students don't lke to voice an opinion for the mere fact that they want to study English and nothing personal ( a very small minority)

But I've had the odd student over the years demand while I'm trying to get an opinion out of them on something to 'PLease just teach me English...', not realizing that she was learning real life English and communicating in a real life situation. She wanted to have a black & white textbook lesson every week.

I spent 11 years of my life in a liberal Catholic school where our High School had the strongest debating record in the State. We had great teachers, and were not force fed any belief systems. We were forced to have an opinion and to experiment wildly with English compositions. It was like 60% of the teachers were Robin Williams from Dead Poets Society.

I'd love to have that kind of freedom and support from other teachers to crete a rich learning environment. (not that I learnt much- we could even get away with the odd smoke at the back of the classroom without the teacher pretending to notice). [We were also strapped with a 1 inch leather strap if our socks were not pulled up properly at morning assembly.]

I'm rambling, but I feel very sorry after sitting thorugh a class at the High School I teach at because the students are brain dead by the age of 12 and I can only try and resucitate them to think out of the box, and sometimes I see their little eyes poking out of the box only to quickly fall back in.......

Corpporal punishment and motivated teachers....what a great combnation.
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New postby amerikajin274 » Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:06 am

You can debate what color is better 'black or white', and cover the same English speaking skills without getting into Un-PC topics or getting people to voice opinions that other people in the class may disagree with.

It's a good old fashioned judgment call, Phonics. In this case, I thought it might be nice after a year of teaching these guys (it's a business class) to be aware that some of the things that might per chance slip out of their mouths could end up pissing someone off if they're shooting the shit over a business dinner one night. Now, of all people, the Japanese are probably going to be extra careful about anything they say, but even so, stereotypes so deeply implanted in their minds, somehow have a way of escaping into space and into our ears from time to time - we've all heard them, I'm sure.

I certainly don't make it a habit to use every English lesson as a controversy corner exercise; in fact, that's probably the only time I've really gotten controversial at all. If I'm confronted about it, I'll defend it. I don't care if it made them uncomfortable. Better they feel uncomfortable now than to make someone else more important than me very uncomfortable at some point in the future; it'll come full circle back to them if they do anyway.

I've got a guy who talks about his sexual exploits at the local brothel everyweek, and it offends all the ladies.

I certainly don't want to be putting myself in the position of telling you how to run your class, as you're more familiar with the chemistry of your student body than I am; but I tend to think that with something like boasting about one's own sexual escapades, once is enough. Just tell him kindly the ladies want to hear something different for a change.

It's a 2 hour lesson where the 1st hour is free discussion. I can't stop him and he doesn't realize its not prper to talk about stuff like that.

Just my own two yen but I think you should shut this guy down. Maybe others have a different take. Guess it depends on the situation, too.

Should I be teaching him manners or English?

In a sense, manners/culture/English...it's all the same. You're teaching someone more than just grammar and sentence structure; you're teaching him about communicating across cultures.

I'd love to breka the borders and teach 'General Studies, Social Sciences and other interesting topics in English... Religion & politics even... Just for the sake of the Japanese having a chance to have an opinion, but is that the job of an English teacher?

Stereotypes, I think, are an example in which the two are merged. There's protocol in any language.

Now, there are some people who think their job is to teach political science and discuss politics; I don't. It's not an ESL teacher's job to give history or social studies lessons, unless the students ask for it. But I do think you want to show the student that there might be situations in which their opinion and general feedback are expected - a lot of Japanese aren't aware of this. They think that nodding their heads in agreement and smiling is okay, assuming that the speaker would rather not be offended by a truth they don't want to hear; as we know, that's not necessarily the case.

In the same vein, there are some situations in which Japanese people may find themselves in situations when they are talking with other people about other people. I got the idea to teach the class when one of my students and I were riding back together on the train and he started talking about the fact that there were "many black criminals in USA". Now, suppose I'd had a black girlfriend or wife - which he wouldnt' know about - and I'd been hearing that. It was hard enough for me to listen to as it was. Yet, I also understand that he probably didn't mean to be insulting or sound racist; he was just making a comment about something he had observed either through experience, comments from people he met there, or in the media.

But I've had the odd student over the years demand while I'm trying to get an opinion out of them on something to 'PLease just teach me English...', not realizing that she was learning real life English and communicating in a real life situation. She wanted to have a black & white textbook lesson every week.

If it's just a one on one lesson, do what the student wants you to do. If it's a group of people and they're going to be involved with people outside Japan, teach them "real world" stuff, and don't apologize for doing it. If they can't take it, tough sh!t.

I'm rambling, but I feel very sorry after sitting thorugh a class at the High School I teach at because the students are brain dead by the age of 12 and I can only try and resucitate them to think out of the box, and sometimes I see their little eyes poking out of the box only to quickly fall back in.......

I wouldn't want to teach in HS here.
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New postby allblacks » Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:47 am

Good to see you guys back here again!

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New postby sos » Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:34 pm

I teach about stereotypes too. It is a basis for communication.
It is important to have a topic we can debate about, one where students can at least start to form an opinion.

Yes, sometimes I wonder what the hell I am doing teaching students about forgiveness, inequality, etc. but they do make interesting discussion. It is sad when students don't have an opinion (I had a student with a PhD in math--why???) who was indifferent about everything. What is the point of living if you can feel, think?

Just my opinion.
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New postby sos » Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:35 pm

back on the topic......

Your boyfriend is Japanese? this seems to shock the hell out of many Japanese girls (like why do you have a great Japanese boyfriend but I don't)
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New postby yaffle » Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:45 pm

sos wrote:back on the topic......

Your boyfriend is Japanese? this seems to shock the hell out of many Japanese girls (like why do you have a great Japanese boyfriend but I don't)


Conversely:

You haven't got a girlfriend?! Don't you like Japanese girls?

No. In fact I judge women only by the colour of their passport, and not by how well we get on, our similar interests, mutual physical attraction and way of thinking.
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New postby Tokyo_Joe » Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:15 pm

Conversely:

You haven't got a girlfriend?! Don't you like Japanese girls?


Ha! I get this one too.

It's not like I'm not trying, asshole. (I usually leave the 'asshole' part off though).
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