A Thread for Translators

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Tall Tall Tree » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:22 pm

Naah, I don't like the capitalization approach. The result looks sloppy, half-translated from German, or somewhere in between.

Italicization is a more subtle approach that may work. But if it really is that frequent, that can look odd too. Just not emphasizing the words at all may be the most natural approach.

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Are they the lemmings? » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:31 pm

Tall Tall Tree wrote:Just not emphasizing the words at all may be the most natural approach.
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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by MacGyver » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:33 pm

Tall Tall Tree wrote:Naah, I don't like the capitalization approach. The result looks sloppy, half-translated from German, or somewhere in between.

Italicization is a more subtle approach that may work. But if it really is that frequent, that can look odd too. Just not emphasizing the words at all may be the most natural approach.
You don't like capitalization but yet you like italicization?

TTT is a web designer with no design sense.

Yeah looks great mate! You're on a winner!

You'll find TTT that in corporate speak and other copy capitalization is widely used. Since you are neither an editor nor translator you don't have to concern yourself with it.
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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by MacGyver » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:34 pm

Are they the lemmings? wrote:
Tall Tall Tree wrote:Just not emphasizing the words at all may be the most natural approach.
:thumbsup: Tall Tall Tree for prime minister!
Tell your clients that (that is no emphasise is the best way to go). See how far you get. :wink:
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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Tall Tall Tree » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:42 pm

MacGyver wrote:
Tall Tall Tree wrote:Naah, I don't like the capitalization approach. The result looks sloppy, half-translated from German, or somewhere in between.

Italicization is a more subtle approach that may work. But if it really is that frequent, that can look odd too. Just not emphasizing the words at all may be the most natural approach.
You don't like capitalization but yet you like italicization?

TTT is a web designer with no design sense.
TTT is a web Designer with no design Sense.

TTT is a web "designer" with no design "sense."

All three of these look ridiculous.

But to go back to your previous example, "We were established on the principles of integrity, honesty, and fearlessness" looks better than "We were established on the principles of Integrity, Honesty, and Fearlessness," in my opinion. Though no emphasis at all would look best, I think.

(And strictly speaking, I'm a web developer, not a designer - I can write code, but I have little artistic or graphic design talent.)

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Shawn » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:44 pm

MacGyver wrote:Tell your clients that (that is no emphasise is the best way to go). See how far you get. :wink:
That's the issue at hand, though. I edit and then my boss approves the edited translation. He will invariably ask where all the quotation marks went :roll: so I need to educate him on as what proper style and grammar looks like in English.

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Shawn » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:45 pm

Tall Tall Tree wrote:But to go back to your previous example, "We were established on the principles of integrity, honesty, and fearlessness" looks better than "We were established on the principles of Integrity, Honesty, and Fearlessness," in my opinion. Though no emphasis at all would look best, I think.
Don't forget option 3: We were established on the principles of integrity, honesty, and fearlessness.

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Are they the lemmings? » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:47 pm

[Deleted on second thought]
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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by redbar » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:42 pm

Shawn wrote: I'm now seeing things from the perspective of a translation buyer.
Just curious- how often do you see weird grammatical errors? I've been seeing some stuff lately that has me convinced the translation companies are lying about having native translators and/or checkers because some of the phrases couldn't possibly come from a native speaker.

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Tall Tall Tree » Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:09 am

Shawn wrote:
Tall Tall Tree wrote:But to go back to your previous example, "We were established on the principles of integrity, honesty, and fearlessness" looks better than "We were established on the principles of Integrity, Honesty, and Fearlessness," in my opinion. Though no emphasis at all would look best, I think.
Don't forget option 3: We were established on the principles of integrity, honesty, and fearlessness.
Yes, that would be the "no emphasis" route.

So if we agree on that, now shall we debate the Oxford comma use? :rope:

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Shawn » Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:43 pm

redbar wrote:Just curious- how often do you see weird grammatical errors? I've been seeing some stuff lately that has me convinced the translation companies are lying about having native translators and/or checkers because some of the phrases couldn't possibly come from a native speaker.
I have yet to see bizarre errors or really messed up translations. The quality is good, but as I've said before, the writing lacks punch, IMO. I'm certain we have native English speakers doing the translation, but have seen on occasion with short translations, some errors and chokuyaku that suggests a Japanese did the job. For me, it doesn't matter if the translator is British or Japanese or Chinese. The only thing that matters is that the translation is of good quality and that I can use it without having to resort to rewriting the translation.

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Shawn » Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:02 pm

Tall Tall Tree wrote:So if we agree on that, now shall we debate the Oxford comma use? :rope:
No debate here. Serial commas for everyone! :mrgreen:

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by inflames » Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:26 pm

This was kind of covered in another thread (a while ago) but I feel it would be worth it to ask it here.

Has anyone here taken a translation course? If so, who was the course targeted towards (native English speakers or native Japanese speakers)? What did you think of it? Does anyone have impressions of those courses (even if you haven't taken them)?

I'm not really talking about courses at a uni but rather courses at a private school (which, I found out, aren't 給付 eligible). Some people (here and friends) have recommended I take one to see whether or not I like it). I do stuff like read books in Japanese (I finished 「風俗嬢のホンネ」 and just started 「大阪のおばちゃん学」) and I've been wanting to change careers for a while.

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Shawn » Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:58 am

...常に前向きに、明るく、元気に」ということです。
...and stay optimistic, positive and full of vim and vigor.

"vim and vigor?" :huh: I want modern English, dammit! Makes me wonder if one of Japan's missing centenarians is doing the translating...

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by allblacks » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:04 am

What the hell is "vim? "

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Wage Slave » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:07 am

Shawn wrote:...常に前向きに、明るく、元気に」ということです。
...and stay optimistic, positive and full of vim and vigor.

"vim and vigor?" :huh: I want modern English, dammit! Makes me wonder if one of Japan's missing centenarians is doing the translating...
It is very dated. "energy and passion" perhaps?
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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Shawn » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:22 am

Wage Slave wrote:It is very dated. "energy and passion" perhaps?
A much better choice of words.
allbloacks wrote:What the hell is "vim? "
A useful word when you're stuck with a "V" in Scrabble. :thumbsup:

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Are they the lemmings? » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:44 pm

Oh man! Ohhh man! That's incredible! What a coincidence.

I come very close to posting yesterday about that very word, "vim", and I was going to say precisely the opposite. I was going to say that we need to reject this collective aversion to old words (as distinct from archaic words) in modern language, and that although those words might have gone out of fashion they still have precise and valid meanings and should not be discarded just because they are passe.

Now I know what sort of reception my post would have got 8)

Meanwhile, wasn't Vim a brand of household cleaner like Jif?
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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by allblacks » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:47 pm

I dont know. Love the pic of Neil though!

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Are they the lemmings? » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:55 pm

allblacks wrote:I dont know. Love the pic of Neil though!
Don't bring me down and hassle me, man! :thumbsup:

(I'll no doubt change my avatar in future so, for posterity's sake, here's the pic ABs is talking about ↓ )
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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Wage Slave » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:13 pm

Are they the lemmings? wrote:Oh man! Ohhh man! That's incredible! What a coincidence.

I come very close to posting yesterday about that very word, "vim", and I was going to say precisely the opposite. I was going to say that we need to reject this collective aversion to old words (as distinct from archaic words) in modern language, and that although those words might have gone out of fashion they still have precise and valid meanings and should not be discarded just because they are passe.

Now I know what sort of reception my post would have got 8)

Meanwhile, wasn't Vim a brand of household cleaner like Jif?
Yes, it was one of those scouring powder type cleaners. My mother still uses it as a generic term for that kind of cleaner.

I agree that it is a good word and just because it is out of fashion is no reason to avoid using it. However, genre and context, as always, dictate our choice of words. Here, (I assume) the context was a corporate website and the genre was vacuous but correct sounding corporatese. Vim doesn't really fit in with that. Too good in a way.

BTW, I reckon the word passion has been used so much for so many things that clearly do not involve passion that it has pretty much lost its meaning. Thus, it is perfectly suited for the genre we are talking about.
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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Shawn » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:31 pm

Wage Slave wrote:I agree that it is a good word and just because it is out of fashion is no reason to avoid using it. However, genre and context, as always, dictate our choice of words. Here, (I assume) the context was a corporate website and the genre was vacuous but correct sounding corporatese. Vim doesn't really fit in with that. Too good in a way.

BTW, I reckon the word passion has been used so much for so many things that clearly do not involve passion that it has pretty much lost its meaning. Thus, it is perfectly suited for the genre we are talking about.
A zabuton for Lemmings and Wage Slave! Yes, there's nothing wrong with vim, but the English language is a living thing and some words get left by the wayside. I translate and write corporate fluff, so vim just won't do. You can, of course, save words like vim by using them, but those people are usually called "grandpa." :cheers:

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Wage Slave » Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:42 pm

Shawn wrote:
Wage Slave wrote:I agree that it is a good word and just because it is out of fashion is no reason to avoid using it. However, genre and context, as always, dictate our choice of words. Here, (I assume) the context was a corporate website and the genre was vacuous but correct sounding corporatese. Vim doesn't really fit in with that. Too good in a way.

BTW, I reckon the word passion has been used so much for so many things that clearly do not involve passion that it has pretty much lost its meaning. Thus, it is perfectly suited for the genre we are talking about.
A zabuton for Lemmings and Wage Slave! Yes, there's nothing wrong with vim, but the English language is a living thing and some words get left by the wayside. I translate and write corporate fluff, so vim just won't do. You can, of course, save words like vim by using them, but those people are usually called "grandpa." :cheers:
I'll try not to use it when I am down with the kids. :D
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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Are they the lemmings? » Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:16 am

Question for you guys. How would you write the onomatopoeic sound for a fire engine's siren?
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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Wage Slave » Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:57 am

Are they the lemmings? wrote:Question for you guys. How would you write the onomatopoeic sound for a fire engine's siren?
That's hard. I'm really not sure what a Japanese fire engine sounds like. That's what comes or living in the countryside I suppose.

In the UK, they have changed to an electronic sound that sounds a lot like it belongs in a video game. I read somewhere it was the result of intensive research into which sounds gave a clear indication what direction they are coming from. Far too many people were being mown down by fire engines because they couldn't detect their location and direction of travel. It is an odd sound but I agree it does work a lot better.
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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Shawn » Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:18 pm

Are they the lemmings? wrote:Question for you guys. How would you write the onomatopoeic sound for a fire engine's siren?
What flavor of English? Wee-Woo (North America) or Nee-Naw (what I think it sounds like in Europe)

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Are they the lemmings? » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:21 pm

Thanks for those replies, gents. I was asked by a colleague who's translating a kids' book. Pressed for time, I went with the wee-woo sound, but I was mindful of that indescribable buzz sound you hear in the UK. I'd completely forgotten about that "nee-naw" sound, through. It might be a bit late, but I'll pass that on, too.

Thanks, blokes.
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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by allblacks » Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:10 pm

I would pay 2000 yen to see a band called:
Wee-woo
I would pay a further 2000 to see a band called
Nee-naw

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Nagasakijin » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:08 pm

This is an excellent thread, wish I'd found it earlier. I particularly like the discussion of the over-use of quotation marks, which is something I've been coming up against in the translation / checking work I do. As far as I can see there are no restrictions in written Japanese on the use of 「」, whereas written English has pretty solid rules on punctuation. I think I made some headway in convincing the companies not to use quotation marks by pointing out the usage of scare quotes, so that a sentence like: " Our company's main policy is "honesty" " simply makes native English readers question the actual honesty of the company.

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Nagasakijin » Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:59 pm

By the way, what electronic dictionaries are you using? I've got a Seiko SII SR-E9000 but it's sort of getting old in the tooth. I saw some color ones recently that looked pretty attractive - forget which company though.

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