A Thread for Translators

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by MacGyver » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:26 pm

Shawn wrote:Hell, they were probably using Google Translate.
Now that you mention it, that would so not surprise me. It was that clunky.
Shawn wrote:You have to wonder about some agencies. They can be as dodgy as an eikaiwa. :willnilly:
Heh, yeah. Reminds me of the ones that pay a NJS to translate into E and then get a NES speaker to edit it cause it's cheaper....I usually refuse to do editing of a translation and I don't particularly like translation checks either but I was asked to a job the week before last and it was 3 files (about 30 pages total) that needed to be checked and 1 file of about 25 pages that needed to be translated. Package deal and I had nothing else to do. Told the agency I would charge US$50 an hour for the trans check but he said he only had US$2K for the lot. Luckily, the 3 pages I had to check were actually pretty good, both accuracy and English-wise. I was led to believe from a mate who put the agency onto me (they asked him but he couldn't or wouldn't do it) that it was a NJS tranny job but I don't think it was. The English was too good. Although if it had been a NES translator they should have gotten a J speaker to check it for accuracy.
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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by MacGyver » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:29 am

So I'm a f\t freelancer at the minute and hence I've been registering at agencies and doing trial translation at those agencies, which is most of them. The results have slowly been trickling in and so far they've all been positive (that is I've passed); that is, except one. Some of the ones I've passed I've had feedback, which is a double edged sword (its hard to hear "dude you made a mistake" but that's the only way one improves), but for the one I failed I didn't get any feedback. Just "sorry, you failed" pretty much. Funny thing is I didn't think the trial was that hard, although one of the paragraphs (there were 3) was poorly written so I had to think about how best to write it in English, and another was flat out copy. So it would have been nice to hear where they thought I farked up.

While it is never nice to fail, I'm actually not that upset about it cause this agency had a lot of demands ("you must be prepared to do as little a single page and you must be prepared to do work after 5pm that is due the next morning") and I didn't like the idea of that. Or maybe there was another reason? Maybe the rate I was asking for was too high? Or perhaps the amount of work I said I could do for them (they asked about daily and hourly capacity) wasn't enough? Who knows. Life in the big city I guess....
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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by bmore » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:30 pm

I’ve been doing some translation work for a buddy of mine in America, translating English court documents into Japanese. Obviously, I’m not Japanese, and translating into your second language is tough, especially court documents and such. To my surprise, however, upon having the documents checked by several Japanese friends, I was told they were really good, and they were hardly corrected. Well, now my buddy tells me he knows a bunch of other guys in similar situations (foreign fathers whose J-wives have kidnapped their kids and beat feet back to Japan) who want similar documents translated into Japanese so they can serve them on their J-wives here in Japan. Since I’m not a native speaker, and since I want to help these guys, I was thinking of charging half the going rate for E-J translations (for my buddy, I’m doing it for free). Here’s the problem: these documents will eventually wind up in Japanese courts, I think, and I’m worried about some slick J-attorney taking issue with one of my translations or a court case being lost because of one of my translations. In such a case, is getting sued for negligence or something a possibility? Should I consider drafting a contract for each person? Has anyone ever heard about a translator getting sued? I’m a patent translator, and my boss once told me that, if a client lost an important patent because of a mistranslation, we could conceivably get sued. I’d appreciate any advice or comments.

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by inflames » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:20 pm

It's a bit unclear but what exactly are you translating?

Translating court documents would be difficult but it wouldn't inherently have any extra negatives (you'd be translating stuff already produced by courts in the US). For example, I wouldn't really see any problems translating a record of what happened in US courts.

If you're producing legal documents for use in Japan, my best advice is to stop. Even if the translation is accurate, there likely are various conventions and standards that are followed that you wouldn't know about but that any lawyer would. There's a reason why big companies employ bilingual lawyers (or patent agents). A lawyer looking over things afterwards should catch them but there's always a risk the lawyer would just put their name on it and send it off to the court.

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by bmore » Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:16 pm

inflames wrote
It's a bit unclear but what exactly are you translating?

Translating court documents would be difficult but it wouldn't inherently have any extra negatives (you'd be translating stuff already produced by courts in the US). For example, I wouldn't really see any problems translating a record of what happened in US courts.

If you're producing legal documents for use in Japan, my best advice is to stop. Even if the translation is accurate, there likely are various conventions and standards that are followed that you wouldn't know about but that any lawyer would. There's a reason why big companies employ bilingual lawyers (or patent agents). A lawyer looking over things afterwards should catch them but there's always a risk the lawyer would just put their name on it and send it off to the court.
Sorry if that was a bit unclear. I’m translating my buddy’s divorce papers from an American court. These will be submitted to the Japanese courts to show that their American marriage has been dissolved. As such, I’m not creating legal documents for the Japanese courts, but instead, as you said, I’m helping my buddy provide a record of what happened in the American courts. In my buddy’s case, I’m not worried about getting sued or there being any problems, because 1) he’s my friend and 2) I’m doing it for free. What I’m worried about is when/if he refers his friends to me, whom I don’t know and whom I’m going to charge (albeit at a discount). Do you think writing up a contract stipulating “you can’t sue B-more” is too much or unnecessary?

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by inflames » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:47 pm

Hmm.... With something like that I don't think an official contract would be necessary. I will note that a lot of that contracts in Japan that are translated into English have a disclaimer saying that, in the event of any discrepancies in the wording, the Japanese wording takes precedence.

I also don't see this being a huge thing. For one thing, as I'm sure pretty much everyone knows, their chance of getting back the kids is quite low. Wording really tends to come into play with contracts (and there are lots of poorly-worded contracts), and this wouldn't be an issue here.

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by MacGyver » Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:18 pm

So a friend of a friend who've I've actually met a couple of times and done some work for in the past, contacts me about a rush a job. I actually don't like doing work for him cause his instructions aren't clear (he sends you a large file, say of 100 pages, and says "do pages 35 to 57" and gets a bit knarky when I double check exactly what he wants; I'm used to people sending me a file saying "do this" or if it has parts I'm not supposed to do, they say "don't do the red bits" or such like. Makes it clear exactly what they want) and he's not only a know-all, but massively picky. The type of guy who will say "'This is a pen' is incorrect. You should have written 'That is a pen.'" Incorrect translation or terminology is one thing, and of course I totally have no problem being called on it, in fact feedback is important, but semantic corrections just shit me off, especially if my work is called out as "wrong".

Anyway, so I take the rush job, which was a financial-related ppt doc, and while it's not my field, it mostly was fairly generic. So then he says, "I can pay X yen per character." While it wasn't a great rate, it fell, just, within my acceptable rate. He then says, "I should really be paying more though considering it is a rush job." Douche. Why not just pay me more then instead of you should and not offering me more? Of course in principle I should have either pressed him on it or turned him down outright but as freelancing is my f/t gig now, and work isn't exactly overflowing at the minute, I had no choice to take it as is. Doesn't piss me off any less though. Farken douche. :anger: :guns:
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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Shawn » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:59 pm

This will ruffle some feathers: Fake It Till You Make It: How I Translate Professionally With Imperfect Japanese

I wouldn't call this being professional, but I suppose the author could make a living if she doesn't mind the long hours and minimum wage rates. If your translation process involves using Google Translate you probably shouldn't be "translating professionally. " Part of being a professional is knowing your limits and declining subject matter you're not familiar with.

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by MacGyver » Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:10 pm

I'm on a FB translators group and this article came through there a few days ago and some of the veterans really had a go at her and "bottom feeders" in general.

I'd agree she's not a professional translator and that she doesn't have the skill to be one, although I'd also not necessarily agree that one must always translate into one's field. Since I've been full time freelance, I've done very little that I would call my field, although JICA-style reports should also be in my specialty (if I was trying to justify it) as I did political science at uni and it's a decent fit. I'm certainly finding that while there is no doubt I want to work in my area -- and take your pick of reasons, there's obviously a few -- I'm finding that, certainly in the beginning, I'd starve if I didn't take one some projects that I'm not necessarily familiar with. And even with projects I reckon I'm proficient enough to handle, there are things in there that I know little about. Take an audit report I did the other day. Generally fairly standard stuff, a little technical but I'm happy with technical stuff in general. But there was a paragraph of contract law. I've done very little, if any, law translations so not surprisingly I got feedback from the agency that, while the translation as a whole was good, I botched that part. Not ideal, but what do you do? Get a lawyer/legal translator botch the technical bits and get that one paragraph right?

And as for bottom feeders, I'm getting sick of reading about veteran translators having a crack at people who make low rates. Some of the jobs I've done would unfortunately fall in that category, hell maybe all of them the way these veterans carry on and also state that they only work for direct clients, but good on them. They have been doing this for a long time so can not only work in their field but also work for direct clients and get much better rates. The way they carry on you'd think no one could ever become a freelance translator. You gotta start somewhere, surely? I'm sure even these blokes weren't the finished product when they started out....
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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Shawn » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:49 pm

MacGyver wrote:I'd agree she's not a professional translator and that she doesn't have the skill to be one, although I'd also not necessarily agree that one must always translate into one's field. Since I've been full time freelance, I've done very little that I would call my field, although JICA-style reports should also be in my specialty (if I was trying to justify it) as I did political science at uni and it's a decent fit. I'm certainly finding that while there is no doubt I want to work in my area -- and take your pick of reasons, there's obviously a few -- I'm finding that, certainly in the beginning, I'd starve if I didn't take one some projects that I'm not necessarily familiar with. And even with projects I reckon I'm proficient enough to handle, there are things in there that I know little about. Take an audit report I did the other day. Generally fairly standard stuff, a little technical but I'm happy with technical stuff in general. But there was a paragraph of contract law. I've done very little, if any, law translations so not surprisingly I got feedback from the agency that, while the translation as a whole was good, I botched that part. Not ideal, but what do you do? Get a lawyer/legal translator botch the technical bits and get that one paragraph right?
I agree that we all have to start somewhere, but when I say translate in your field, I mean translate what you know. You don't have to have a formal education in your field, but you should at least be familiar with the subject matter. If you try translating what you don't know, you end up like the woman in the linked article endlessly looking up stuff and faking it with online translation services. Knowing your subject helps you avoid wasting your time and lets you work faster, and work with confidence. You have some experience Mac, and I'm sure that you've been exposed to enough corporate bullshit that let's you stray out of your comfort zone. :wink:

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by JD9 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:40 am

Hi guys, I've recently started doing a lot more stuff in the indie game development world (started to learn how to make games myself, started a development team, and began corresponding with other indie devs etc) and enquiries about us (my wife and I) translating games to localize in Japanese has come up a couple of times.

My wife didn't want to know about it at first but I've been in her ear a bit and she's finally come to see that it could be a good way for her to earn a few dollars from home. She was concerned about not having any professional translation qualifications and possible stress from deadlines but I've assured her that would all be disclosed / outlined etc. and that we'd only be taking on small indie games. There seems to be some definite interest in what we could offer out there as I've also got an art guy who can redesign banners etc. for Japanese, which is often a major pain for small dev teams to work around.

I've done a bit of searching around but the figures are all over the place, any idea what low-end to high-end rates for this would be? Most games aren't text heavy so there wouldn't actually be a lot involved, it's more about finding and sticking to the right 'mood'.

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by bmore » Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:49 am

Sorry, it's E to J? Generally, J to E is more expensive and E to J is less.
Translation charges by the word, and from my understanding, the most lucrative translation is in this order: Patents, medicine, financial/legal, general purpose (for lack of a better word).
I suspect video games would fall into the last category of "general purpose", meaning you don't need particular technical knowledge to do it. I think (once again), that per word translation for general purpose is something like
10 yen per word (J to E), and probably a bit less for E to J. Feel free to correct me.

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by JD9 » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:13 pm

Yeah E to J.
It would be a rate something along the lines of that and then the contract further negotiated for art and ongoing customer support in J to E and E to J depending on what the game devs were after etc.
Will be doing a very cheap package for the first dev just to test the waters. :thumbsup:
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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by MacGyver » Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:48 am

Sorry mate but I know very little about game translation. The closest I have gotten was my very first interview for a translating gig was for some game company. But I digress. While bmore is mostly correct, I will say that there are no hard and fast rules for rates. I've seen rates for J to E (generally quoted per original character, not word) as low as 2 yen and I've heard of them being as high as 15 yen per character, although I am sure there are some out there making more with direct clients. As bmore says E to J is generally a bit cheaper (generalization but this is because it is easier and there is more competition; more J peeps to translate into Japanese than other way around) and rule of thumb per word is double. (2 characters per word)

I'd imagine game translation is lower than what bmore quoted but that's a guess based on my own experience rather than any hard evidence. I say this because there are heaps of peeps who want to translate games (sounds like a lot of fun, right? and that's what everyone thinks) and it's not as hard as many other subjects, therefore entry hurdles are much lower. Only way to find out is to test the waters. It sounds like you are talking localization though so that would be different again. I have no clue what rates would be standard. Again, best test the waters. As I say there are no hard and fast rates, some customers even want you to quote per job, so you keep quoting until you figure out what people will pay you. Sometimes they'll just tell you "we pay this" and that's it.

Anyway, good luck! :luck:
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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by wilde_oscar » Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:11 pm

MacGyver wrote: NJS tranny job
Another great band name.
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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by BergKatse » Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:00 pm

Sorry to revive this thread after two years and three months...
Just out of interest, does anyone here use Felix?

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by MacGyver » Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:42 pm

I used to but I dumped it for Trados. It's free now as apparently Ryan is sick so he stopped developing it although when I had a major issue and brought it up to him in person when I saw him at a conference, he didn't do shit anyway. For a programmer, he is a good translator! :P

I mostly dumped it because it didn't work properly in Excel 2013 (kept crashing) which is the issue I raised with Ryan. But even then, it only grabs cells, not sentences within the cell. So say you have the following in one cell:
学生ローン詐欺のスパムはさまざまな形で届きますが、負債額の軽減、整理、債務の免除を謳っているのが一般的です。詐欺メールは、支払いがゼロになる、つまり債務が全額免除されるなどと騙ってユーザーを引き付けます。夢のような話ですが、もちろん夢に決まっています。あるいは、政府や債権者、大学などが提供している無料サービスについて、料金を請求する場合もあります。

Instead of grabbing one sentence at a time, in this case 学生ローン詐欺のスパムはさまざまな形で届きますが、負債額の軽減、整理、債務の免除を謳っているのが一般的です。as the first sentence, it'll grab the whole lot. So say you've translated all or some of those sentences, or similar sentences, Felix won't give you any matches.

I also don't like the revision function in Word. You have to change to Edit mode and then highlight that sentence. Trados has an advantage in that all sentences are lined up side by side (source on the left and target on the right) so you can see the J at all times and revise the E at any time. Concordance search is also better in Trados. Trados also populates the target column with matches and automatically populates the target column with 100% matches and moves on to the next line. If you have lots of 100% matches in a row, it is VERY fast. And it tells you your progress. For me, this alone is worth the 70K price. Trados has other analysis functions as well.

The best thing about Felix is the way you can create a TM in Excel if you have Source - target columns side by side. Although that no longer works for me anyway.... :anger:

That said, very very occasionally if I have a large translated Word file with a very small amount of J additions thrown in, then I'll use Felix. And as I say Felix is now free so why not give it a try? You can always save TM files as TMX and import them into Trados at a later date if you ever do start using Trados.
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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by BergKatse » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:32 am

MacGyver wrote:You can always save TM files as TMX and import them into Trados at a later date if you ever do start using Trados.
Does the reverse work? Can you open Trados files in Felix and re-save them as .ftm files?

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by MacGyver » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:40 am

BergKatse wrote:
MacGyver wrote:You can always save TM files as TMX and import them into Trados at a later date if you ever do start using Trados.
Does the reverse work? Can you open Trados files in Felix and re-save them as .ftm files?
I've never done it, but my guess is you'd have to save Trados TM files as TMX, open them with Felix, and then save as FTM files. For the past 3 years at about this time I work on a project with a mate and he has Felix. Initially we both used Felix and gave each other our TM files once we were done with that week's section (the project is usually divided into 5 weeks worth of work). I've since changed to Trados (as I mentioned) but he still uses Felix (he works in-house and only does this project on the side for a mate so hasn't gotten Trados yet), so we exchange TMX files now. No issues on either end so far.
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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Shawn » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:11 am

The problem of trying to parse Trump:
As political leaders in Japan pay close attention to how U.S. President Donald Trump will go in office, so, too, are interpreters who have had a nightmarish experience translating his disjointed speeches.

“He rarely speaks logically, and he only emphasizes one side of things as if it were the absolute truth. There are lots of moments when I suspected his assertions were factually dubious,” said Chikako Tsuruta, who routinely covers Trump-related news as an interpreter for CNN, ABC and CBS.

“He is so overconfident and yet so logically unconvincing that my interpreter friends and I often joke that if we translated his words as they are, we would end up making ourselves sound stupid,” Tsuruta, who is also a professor of interpreting and translation studies at the Tokyo University of Foreign Studies, said in a recent interview.
Trump doesn't make sense in English, so if your Japanese makes you sound stupid, you're probably doing it right.

The article then gets into the question of how to render his language--do you interpret/translate as is or do you try to make sense of it?
“As an interpreter, your job is to translate the words of a speaker exactly as they are, no matter how heinous and what an outrageous liar you find the speaker to be,” Torikai, who has a Ph.D. in interpreting studies, said.

“You set aside all your personal emotions and become the speaker yourself. It’s a really tough thing, not being allowed to demonstrate your own judgment about what is right and what is wrong. And that’s why I quit.”

Torikai said she was sympathetic with interpreters who struggled with such ambivalence toward Trump’s language. But nonetheless, she is adamant Trumpese “neither be beautified nor be upgraded.”

“If Trump is not making sense, you don’t get to make sense, either. If his language is coarse, that’s the way you translate him,” she said.
If you're interpreting, you owe it to your listeners to give it to them straight, free of your judgement.

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by Edogaijin » Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:52 pm

I translate, therefore am I.

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Re: A Thread for Translators

Unread post by In The Know » Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:46 pm

I'm not doing translating work, but I found this interview profile of a U.K. guy interesting. He's doing translation work in Japan, mainly of novels, it seems. Being a small, specialized field, maybe some of you translators know him: Jonathan Lloyd-Davies. He translated the just-out novel "64" by Yokoyama Hideo.

https://www.tofugu.com/interviews/jonat ... yd-davies/

Anyway, there you have it!

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