And the next leader of the free world will be...

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And the next leader of the free world will be...

Obama. I am hoping it'll be Obama.
23
47%
Obama. However, I am hoping it'll be McCain.
1
2%
McCain. I am hoping it'll be McCain.
3
6%
McCain. However, I am hoping it'll be Obama.
8
16%
*Yawn*
14
29%
 
Total votes: 49

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Wage Slave » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:14 pm

OK you can't see the difference between things bought for personal use and bought by the party for the party's use. Anyway, it annoyed a lot of people and perhaps says something about her character.

They must have been listening re the banks. It's U Turn time. They now want shares instead of a load of bad debt. Welcome to state ownership of the banks :-).
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by senseiman » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:46 pm

Much though I don't like Palin, I think the criticism surrounding this wardrobe stuff is pretty baseless or at least blown all out of proportion. She was part of the ticket running for the most powerful position in the world so it shouldn't really be surprising that her party purchased clothes for her that cost an obscene amount. I'm sure if Hilary Clinton had won the Democratic nomination her wardrobe would probably have cost the same.

My main thing with Palin was that she was (to be kind) a little uninformed about the world in which she lives.
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by BartenBotflyVB » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:53 am

I'm pulling for the Trumpster. The sheer volume of comedic material Trump's presidency would generate on the telly/internet would surely lift the spirits of the whole WORLD (outside Jesusland), a gaye olde time for all, chuckling along for the next 4 years at the expense of some buck-brained birdfeather-bouffanted buffoon.

Image

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by steki47 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:26 pm

BartenBotflyVB wrote:I'm pulling for the Trumpster.
A better song for the Trumpen Jugend:


steki47

Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by steki47 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:30 pm

Must say, Hillary is going batty. Here, she names the Alt Right as an attack on Trump. A troll is in the audience and Chan Culture goes mainstream. Fun stuff!


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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Kuronama » Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:47 pm

steki47 wrote:Must say, Hillary is going batty. Here, she names the Alt Right as an attack on Trump. A troll is in the audience and Chan Culture goes mainstream. Fun stuff!


I've been following the election pretty much everyday. In Canada the news, on a daily basis, lets us know their views on the election (implicitly of course) - i.e.. Hilary is the "appropriate" choice (they do mention the email thing and have done so in the past to appear "neutral" or "balanced" but having watched the coverage for months it's anything but). Now I'm not going to go out and say Trump is some ideal candidate, and certainly quite a bit of the stuff he says warrants a decent amount of news coverage and criticism, but there are a couple points he does make that I agree with - one being the "liberal bias" in the media (I certainly see it in Canada, so I'm just going to assume it's similar in the U.S.); another is the whole "political correctness" thing - major problem in Canada; the main reason why Vancouver has become so fucked up in terms of astronomical house prices, in my opinion. Also, the illegal immigration does need to be dealt with. Deport 11 million? Probably not. What the States, and Canada, should do is get rid of citizenship upon birth and thus remove the motivation for the whole "anchor baby" thing (Canada and the U.S. are the only two countries in the world where such a thing exists) - start with that and see what happens, I'd argue. Maybe that should be Trump's message. We have the same thing at hospitals where I live in Canada from a different particular ethnic group; Birth Tourism is a huge business in my neck of the woods, brings in the cash which the government likes but then strains the (universal) healthcare system.

steki47

Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by steki47 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:03 pm

Kuronama wrote: I've been following the election pretty much everyday. In Canada the news, on a daily basis, lets us know their views on the election (implicitly of course) - i.e.. Hilary is the "appropriate" choice (they do mention the email thing and have done so in the past to appear "neutral" or "balanced" but having watched the coverage for months it's anything but). Now I'm not going to go out and say Trump is some ideal candidate, and certainly quite a bit of the stuff he says warrants a decent amount of news coverage and criticism, but there are a couple points he does make that I agree with - one being the "liberal bias" in the media (I certainly see it in Canada, so I'm just going to assume it's similar in the U.S.); another is the whole "political correctness" thing - major problem in Canada; the main reason why Vancouver has become so fucked up in terms of astronomical house prices, in my opinion. Also, the illegal immigration does need to be dealt with. Deport 11 million? Probably not. What the States, and Canada, should do is get rid of citizenship upon birth and thus remove the motivation for the whole "anchor baby" thing (Canada and the U.S. are the only two countries in the world where such a thing exists) - start with that and see what happens, I'd argue. Maybe that should be Trump's message. We have the same thing at hospitals where I live in Canada from a different particular ethnic group; Birth Tourism is a huge business in my neck of the woods, brings in the cash which the government likes but then strains the (universal) healthcare system.
In no particular order:
1. Birthright citizenship in the US was first used for specific situations: newly freed slaves and American Indians. The anchor baby application did not show up until the 70s/80s. This could be repealed.

2. Deportation: It is possible to deport people in a humane and orderly fashion. We did it in the 50s. There is a ripple effect whereby we deported 10,000 and an estimated 50,000 self-deported. Still, it is a huge use of resources and some find it distasteful, to say the least.

2A. Trump recently appears to be changing his position on deportation. This could be due to a few possible factors. I am a bit worried.

3. The Liberal bias in US media has been documented for years. It is not universal but has been documented and admitted by some. Careful editing of the video in the Rodney King beating and Zimmerman's 911 call come to mind. Selective reporting of racial data in criminal cases as well.

3A. Much of the media has been openly hostile towards Trump. (He has responded with equal hostility.) CNN was caught lying about Trump; Reuters and the Secret Service called CNN out on that.

4. RE: Trump is not an ideal candidate: Many Republicans (including my Boomer Christian parents) find his personality to be repulsive. Personally, I think only a billionaire asshole could pull off a revolution like this.

5. Hillary: I think it is nuts to see this criminal warmonger as a "safe candidate". I think a Prez Hillary would bring more terrorism and more rioting in the US. Plus increased tensions overseas.

6. The election: The ball is still in play. We have yet to hold the debates and Trump is just starting to do TV ads. Assange may have a few reveals on Clinton. (Not that they have had much effect so far.)

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Kuronama » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:23 pm

I agree. Point 4 is interesting in particular - most people worry about their next job and supporting their family, this guy's a billionaire so he need not worry about that. I think the main reason most - or at least certainly a fairly large percentage - of people are "politically correct" is because of that very reason. Again, this guy need not worry about that.

I've been watching a lot of stuff from Ben Shapiro, a smart, hardcore conservative Jewish republican (Harvard law school graduate like Obama), and probably one of the most objective commentators out there I've watched. I think it was him who said something like being politically incorrect does not always mean you're spewing BS (I think he used the example of differentiating 'anchor babies', a politically incorrect issue, versus Trump talking about Megan Kelly and "blood coming out of her wherever" comment and that being an example of spewing BS/being a dick)

steki47

Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by steki47 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:03 pm

Kuronama wrote:I agree. Point 4 is interesting in particular - most people worry about their next job and supporting their family, this guy's a billionaire so he need not worry about that. I think the main reason most - or at least certainly a fairly large percentage - of people are "politically correct" is because of that very reason. Again, this guy need not worry about that.
Political Correctness hasn't been defined very well, yet everyone seems to know it exists. And, as you mentioned, it has real power. People have lost jobs because of an insensitive joke or tweet. Scientists and academics have been fired for citing data that doesn't jive with the prevailing egalitarian zeitgeist.

(This topic is something I have been looking at for years. Is the PC crowd the new Victorians or the new Puritans? Certainly generates some witch hunts in Western countries. Yet only in Western countries. Asians are often politically incorrect and often-in my opinion-hilariously insensitive on such matters.)

As for Trump, he has rather PC-approved attitudes towards Jews/Israel and Blacks. Lots of them in his personal and professional life.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by lordCONAN » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:59 pm

America, doing it for the epic lolz!

steki47

Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by steki47 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:51 pm

lordCONAN wrote:America, doing it for the epic lolz!
wmP4KoJ.jpg

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by allblacks » Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:20 pm

Wtf. Seriously! I can't believe he won

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Shawn » Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:51 pm

Holy shit, he won.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by RalphWiggum » Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:55 pm

Idiots.
Shit wank bollocks

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by T.D. » Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:15 pm

Can't believe he pulled this off. Especially considering the rigged DNC primary and all of the money she got in donations. Her support of Black Lives Matters and not supporting the military or police and the way she screwed over Bernie Sanders and rigged the debates didn't help I'm sure. Then again, having a husband that was impeached and known for his treatment of women couldn't have helped either. Despite all of this I was sure she was going to win. Let's hope Trump gets a good cabinet in place and can do some good. Or let's hope for gridlock for the next 4 years.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by senseiman » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:53 am

Give a disillusioned electorate who feel everything is stacked against them (because it is) a choice between a firebomb and more of the same and they`ll go for the firebomb. First Brexit, now Trump. And I guess you could add Duterte in the Philippines to the list.

The problem is that neither Brexit nor Trump offer any solutions that will make those people less disillusioned or make the system less stacked against them. In most ways they offer things that will just make them worse off. Trump`s main economic policies are tax cuts mostly aimed at the wealthy and a vague promise to renegotiate trade agreements that in reality he can`t do much about in order to bring back manufacturing jobs that won`t come back regardless of the trade agreements in place anyway.

Shit, looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by BergKatse » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:21 am

Donald Trump is the straw that people who feel they are drowning clutched at.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by MacGyver » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:38 am

BergKatse wrote:Donald Trump is the straw that people who feel they are drowning clutched at.
And to echo senseiman, they may well find out that this straw was actually a 1 ton metal bar that continues to drag them under. I guess we're going to find out. As a non-American, while I am disturbed at the direction America is taking and feel sorry for those that he won't serve (most likely most of the country), the best I can hope for is that his presidency doesn't affect me much or at all. Selfish I know but as I say as a non-American who doesn't even live in America there isn't much I can do except watch and wonder.
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by senseiman » Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:21 pm

MacGyver wrote: And to echo senseiman, they may well find out that this straw was actually a 1 ton metal bar that continues to drag them under. I guess we're going to find out. As a non-American, while I am disturbed at the direction America is taking and feel sorry for those that he won't serve (most likely most of the country), the best I can hope for is that his presidency doesn't affect me much or at all. Selfish I know but as I say as a non-American who doesn't even live in America there isn't much I can do except watch and wonder.
This is kind of my feeling too, as a fellow non-American.

From that perspective its not necessarily all bad. On the plus side:
1) the TPP is dead. It was a horrible agreement and the world is probably better off without it.
2) US-Russia relations might improve. I feel that in general the world is a safer place when those two countries are getting along and the last couple of years have been pretty bad in that regard, if it improves because of Trump then thats a positive.
3) related to point 2, Trump`s policy on Syria (cooperate with Russia) makes more sense that Obama`s or Clinton`s, which have probably just drawn out the conflict and suffering. If he can end that war even if it means propping up Assad that is probably a better way forward than the totally incoherent, failed approach pursued so far.
4) Trump and Brexit are both a wake up call to the establishment around the world that working people are fed up with the form of globalization that has been carried out almost entirely against their interests and without any meaningful consultation. Neither Trump nor Brexit offer solutions to the problems created, but at least they have convincingly stated that a style of global governance carried out by the international elite without even the most basic regard for the well being of the average person is at a complete end.
5) This will distract him from creating his TrumpTV network, so we won`t be subjected to that, at least for 4-8 years.
6) He seems to want to invest in manned space missions to the moon (and maybe Mars) again, which would be cool.

On the downside:
1) All American plans for investing in clean energy and reducing carbon emissions are now on hold. Just when the world finally seemed to be making some progress on that, this is a huge step back. Hopefully the rest of the world will step up, but you really need the US to be among those playing an active role.
2) His economic plans aren`t going to solve any of the problems with the American economy and will likely make them much much worse, meaning that many of the underlying social ills that led to his election will likely fester and elections like this one may become the new norm (with all the instability that introduces).
3) While relations with Russia might improve, its really hard to tell how relations with other countries will be affected. Obviously Mexico and Latin America in general are going to be antagonized by whatever he does. Japan seems to have somehow gotten in his crosshairs during the campaign because he is basically a relic of the 1980s and thinks Japanese imports are somehow a threat to the US now like they were in 1983. He may have gotten Japan and China confused, which is worrying in itself.
4) The whole "nuclear codes in the hands of a guy who can`t even be trusted with a Twitter account" thing is legitimately disconcerting. While I`ve had doubts about the competence of some previous presidents like GW, I at least was comforted by the idea that he had advisors who knew what they were doing who could slap his hand with a fly swatter if he ever reached for the button. Trump`s advisors seem incapable of controlling him, so I`m quite concerned that if some international crisis occurs under his watch things might escalate very quickly.
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by steki47 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:38 pm

senseiman wrote: 6) He seems to want to invest in manned space missions to the moon (and maybe Mars) again, which would be cool.


1) All American plans for investing in clean energy and reducing carbon emissions are now on hold.
Trump seems to be a mixed bag with science issues. He has some interesting friends, though. Case in point, Peter Thiel:

http://www.businessinsider.com/peter-th ... ech-2016-7
"Instead of going to Mars, we have invaded the Middle East. ... It’s time to end the era of stupid wars and rebuild our country."
senseiman wrote: Hopefully the rest of the world will step up, but you really need the US to be among those playing an active role.
As an American myself, I would like to see the US take a smaller role in global politics and security. It is no longer 1945 and many other countries have the brains and ability to develop technologies and conduct politics and business without the US.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by senseiman » Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:03 pm

steki47 wrote: As an American myself, I would like to see the US take a smaller role in global politics and security. It is no longer 1945 and many other countries have the brains and ability to develop technologies and conduct politics and business without the US.
Yeah, my comment was specifically about climate change and not necessarily about politics/security in general. Its OK by me if the US wants to take a smaller role in global politics (though its important to bear in mind that there are also costs to the US itself in pursuing such a course, depending on how far you take it), but Trump`s position on carbon emissions seems to be "Fuck you all, America isn`t going to cooperate at all on this anymore", which is very concerning to me because this is an issue that by its nature needs international cooperation from all countries including the US.
祇園精舎の鐘の聲、諸行無常の響あり。娑羅雙樹の花の色、盛者必衰のことわりをあらはす。おごれる人も久しからず、唯春の夜の夢のごとし。たけき者も遂にほろびぬ、偏に風の前の塵に同じ。

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Shawn » Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:44 pm

MacGyver wrote:And to echo senseiman, they may well find out that this straw was actually a 1 ton metal bar that continues to drag them under. I guess we're going to find out. As a non-American, while I am disturbed at the direction America is taking and feel sorry for those that he won't serve (most likely most of the country), the best I can hope for is that his presidency doesn't affect me much or at all. Selfish I know but as I say as a non-American who doesn't even live in America there isn't much I can do except watch and wonder.
:agree:

Just to add a point on the graph, Clinton won the popular vote, so Trump doesn't have much of a mandate. It will be interesting to see how he forms a government. Who does he surround himself with? I've already heard Newt Gingrich's and Rudy Guliani's names. :chug: Then there are the looming Trump U lawsuits. Plus the protests in the streets. It's looking pretty chaotic right now.

steki47

Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by steki47 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:56 pm

senseiman wrote:but Trump`s position on carbon emissions seems to be "Fuck you all, America isn`t going to cooperate at all on this anymore", which is very concerning to me because this is an issue that by its nature needs international cooperation from all countries including the US.
This is where I break rank with many of the conservatives in the US. I don't see a problem with being environmentally friendly. In fact, I find it frustrating that climate change has become so politicized.

steki47

Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by steki47 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:58 pm

Shawn wrote: Plus the protests in the streets. It's looking pretty chaotic right now.
That sprung up fast and all over the country.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-e ... SKBN1343CO

Muslim man in NYC flipping out.


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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by allblacks » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:22 pm

There's talk of Cali-exit... Meaning like Brexit but California sucession...

http://www.businessinsider.com/californ ... ign=buffer

steki47

Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by steki47 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:36 am

allblacks wrote:There's talk of Cali-exit... Meaning like Brexit but California sucession...

http://www.businessinsider.com/californ ... ign=buffer

OK. See you.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by senseiman » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:46 am

steki47 wrote:
This is where I break rank with many of the conservatives in the US. I don't see a problem with being environmentally friendly. In fact, I find it frustrating that climate change has become so politicized.
The anti-environmental/anti-science element isnt necessarily a part of "conservatism" since it clearly contradicts so much of the underlying philosophy of conservatism. It strikes me as nothing more than a reflection of choices made by the Republican party to include (for other reasons) large and often dirty industry groups in their coalition and, in order to make them satisfied, pushing policies that are clearly detrimental to the well being of the country (in environmental terms).
There's talk of Cali-exit... Meaning like Brexit but California sucession...
That Cal-exit thing is the most obnoxious pile of shit I have seen since....well, since Trump was elected which was only a couple of days ago but still, its obnoxious.

When I read this article about it (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... ?CMP=fb_gu ) the thing that pissed me off about it was that everything that Silicon Valley elites are quoted as opposing Trump on are actually among the few areas in which I think Trump is making valid points. Criticizing Apple for not making its iPhones in the US? Hell yeah that is something a US president should be bringing up. Slamming tycoons for buying up newspapers to sway public opinion? Yeah, that pisses me off too, fuck you Bezos. Hiring temporary foreign workers at the expense of American workers? Sometimes its valid to hire foreign workers with skills you need, but at least in Canada there is a lot of evidence that these types of programs are used specifically to replace workers (not sure how they work in the US, but assume it is open to the same type of abuse). So yeah, screw that too.

Of course Trump is a huge hypocrite since a lot of those things he has done or been complicit in himself. Doesn`t make the substance of his points wrong though.

Also, succession is highly illegal and didn`t really go so well the last time it was attempted. So what I see is that a bunch of out of touch Silcon Valley oligarchs are trying to stir up a political movement that may result in the destruction of the United States because they want to protect their business models/personal empires from whatever threat they perceive Trump as posing to it.

I`d like to be comforted by the knowledge that nobody in their right mind would let that happen, but if you told me 6 months ago that the UK was going to leave the EU and Trump was going to be president of the United States I`d have said the same thing....
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Shawn » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:31 am

I know it's early, but just look at the names that might make up the next government:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... -look-like

Even Sarah Palin's name has been floated. :rotfl:

Let's say half of these names become part of the Trump administration. If I were a foreign government, would I want to deal with the GOP's usual suspects or would it make more sense to keep the US at arm's length and strengthen relations elsewhere?

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by senseiman » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:53 am

Shawn wrote:I know it's early, but just look at the names that might make up the next government:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... -look-like

Even Sarah Palin's name has been floated. :rotfl:

Let's say half of these names become part of the Trump administration. If I were a foreign government, would I want to deal with the GOP's usual suspects or would it make more sense to keep the US at arm's length and strengthen relations elsewhere?
"American not sure it will have enough horror, revulsion left for cabinet and court appointments"
http://www.theonion.com/article/america ... -and-54676

I`m going to tune out American politics for the next while, its just too depressing to think about and, having the luxury of being a Canadian in Japan, I can do that since the domestic stuff doesn`t affect me.

Regardless of what Trump`s foreign policies end up actually being (who knows) the fact that the US has elected someone who has said the stuff he said in the campaign is a message to all American allies that they have to start hedging their bets. Even if Trump doesn`t follow through on what he said, he`s already smashed the concept of American making credible commitments to its allies and there is little to guarantee that once that has been broken a future president won`t go down a seriously isolationist path.

China and Russia are likely to be the main beneficiaries of this. The weakness of Trump`s approach is that in his mind the only effect of taking a hard line with allies is that they`ll start coughing up more money for defence and America will reap the savings. The real world doesn`t work like that. They might cough up more money for their own defence, but they are also going to be a lot less cooperative on everything else, and some might end up as future adversaries. China and Russia will be glad to welcome many of them to their own expanding fold.

I`m not sure if this will make the world better off in the long run or not, but America is already a weaker country on the international stage without him having even taken office yet.
祇園精舎の鐘の聲、諸行無常の響あり。娑羅雙樹の花の色、盛者必衰のことわりをあらはす。おごれる人も久しからず、唯春の夜の夢のごとし。たけき者も遂にほろびぬ、偏に風の前の塵に同じ。

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Shawn
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Shawn » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:38 am

senseiman wrote:I`m going to tune out American politics for the next while, its just too depressing to think about and, having the luxury of being a Canadian in Japan, I can do that since the domestic stuff doesn`t affect me.
I'm tuning in for the opposite reason: Will his administration be a complete train wreck or will he actually govern like an adult? I don't think you can hide from Trump in Japan. Remember, he wants Japan to pay up. :ack: A clumsy Trump government could embolden China and Japan in the South China Sea. Or maybe it will cause the yen to spike wildly causing a massive outflow of yen as Canadians cash in on the exchange rate. :mrgreen: Then there is the unknown of how Canada and the US will get along. Maybe Trudeau will elbow Trump or something?
senseiman wrote:Regardless of what Trump`s foreign policies end up actually being (who knows) the fact that the US has elected someone who has said the stuff he said in the campaign is a message to all American allies that they have to start hedging their bets. Even if Trump doesn`t follow through on what he said, he`s already smashed the concept of American making credible commitments to its allies and there is little to guarantee that once that has been broken a future president won`t go down a seriously isolationist path.
Better bookmark this site or take screenshots for posterity: https://www.greatagain.gov/
senseiman wrote:China and Russia are likely to be the main beneficiaries of this. The weakness of Trump`s approach is that in his mind the only effect of taking a hard line with allies is that they`ll start coughing up more money for defence and America will reap the savings. The real world doesn`t work like that. They might cough up more money for their own defence, but they are also going to be a lot less cooperative on everything else, and some might end up as future adversaries. China and Russia will be glad to welcome many of them to their own expanding fold.
I agree with this. Trump is sure to make errors in judgement given his inexperience, and you can be sure China and Russia are already scheming of ways to take advantage of that.
senseiman wrote:I`m not sure if this will make the world better off in the long run or not, but America is already a weaker country on the international stage without him having even taken office yet.
:pc: :pc:

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