And the next leader of the free world will be...

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And the next leader of the free world will be...

Obama. I am hoping it'll be Obama.
23
47%
Obama. However, I am hoping it'll be McCain.
1
2%
McCain. I am hoping it'll be McCain.
3
6%
McCain. However, I am hoping it'll be Obama.
8
16%
*Yawn*
14
29%
 
Total votes: 49

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Shawn » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:43 am

The BBC link is dead, but here it is on tape:
You know your campaign has gone off the rails when you have to try and convince your supporters that the guy running against you isn't an Arab terrorist. :jaw:

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Wage Slave » Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:29 am

Scary stuff in a country with a pretty rich history of deadly political violence and assassination.

At this rate the chances must be high that one of the rallies is going to end in a riot. The people at the top of the party must be kicking themselves now - Can you imagine any swing voter or undecided being impressed by this?
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Tall Tall Tree » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:16 pm

Please don't think that shit is mainstream, no matter how much MSNBC is telling you it is. If you'd like, I can find you video taken at various "peace" rallies around the country in the last few years which spew similar bile at Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice. Come on now.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Wage Slave » Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:03 pm

I can very well accept and want very much to believe they are a minority of Republican voters. It is much more difficult to accept that they are not mainstream. They aren't attending some splinter group meeting - These are the official Republican rallies. The only possible rationale for selecting Palin as the running mate was to keep these people firmly on side. They are significant in numbers, hold office in the party and exercise considerable power.

I would be interested to see any video you may have of people at an official Democratic Party rally claiming that Bush et al are non American, muslims, terrorists, traitors or anything equivalent. Frankly I would be very surprised but I am quite willing to be proven wrong.

In the meantime, one silver lining for Palin is that this circus has done a good job of distracting everyone's attention away from her flagrant abuse of power in the office she already holds.
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Shawn » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:48 pm

Tall Tall Tree wrote:Please don't think that shit is mainstream, no matter how much MSNBC is telling you it is. If you'd like, I can find you video taken at various "peace" rallies around the country in the last few years which spew similar bile at Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice. Come on now.
I fully understand, but as Wage Slave says, this is a regular political rally and that's what makes it scary. What leaves me scratching my head is the fact that McCain is making the campaign about how unfit/scary Obama is when McCain should be campaigning on how superior a candidate he is for the presidency.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by jon » Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:05 pm

Shawn wrote:
Tall Tall Tree wrote:Please don't think that shit is mainstream, no matter how much MSNBC is telling you it is. If you'd like, I can find you video taken at various "peace" rallies around the country in the last few years which spew similar bile at Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice. Come on now.
I fully understand, but as Wage Slave says, this is a regular political rally and that's what makes it scary. What leaves me scratching my head is the fact that McCain is making the campaign about how unfit/scary Obama is when McCain should be campaigning on how superior a candidate he is for the presidency.
It seems he's trying to have it both ways: using the ladies in particular to be his low brow attack dogs, while he stands aloof from the dirty stuff and acts nice, defending Obama in public when the bad stuff comes in his direction.

The republicans are running scared. If they can hang on to their core base at least, the defeat won't be too humiliating. That's why this stuff is coming out. Anyway, I'm glad Sarah Palin is playing along. After the election she'll be back in the wop wops where she belongs.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Wage Slave » Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:51 pm

Image
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Stick-Swinging Incident » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:36 pm

Remember when Fox used to be on Sky Perfect TV and the Fox news channel was a joke. Their slant on everything was extreamly right wing. I guess Fox should have come up with the slogan... "Watch us, we're always right!" Is MSNBC the counter point to Fox?

The host went off on a single phrase, "Bomb Obama!" when she refered to ANOTHER debate between a Dem and a Rep. Then gave her little history lesson. Now while it is the same party as McCain, its dropped in the middle of the story about McCain. It was in Georgia I believe, as well, it was a supporter who shoulted the phrase.

Just like Obama shouldn't be taken to task about what his ex Pastor says, which was equally as inflamatory in my opinion, you can't expect McCain to be held responsible for what a supporter shouts out when McCain isn't even in the state! It was sensationalism.
Afterwards the party needs to come out and CONDEMN these remarks and distance themselves. (Dunno if they did or not) But basically, This reporter is doing just as much a mud slinging hatchet job as she accuses the Republicans of doing.
For me, this really destroyed her credit with me. Even if I agreed with her, I stopped believing her.

About 7 minutes in though, she has a Time Reporter Ms. Cox I beileve. Something she said sort of rang true for me.
McCain's reputation and decency overcame his party's smear fest. And McCain stood up to the "wing nuts".
This made me respect McCain more. Still wouldn't vote for him, as I also have deep disagreements with his ideals, but he showed me today, or should I say he proved what I believed, that he is a man of character.
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Tall Tall Tree » Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:33 am

Wage Slave wrote:[Palin debate flow chart]
Image

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Wage Slave » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:48 am

Touché TTT 8)

No matter who wins, I think we can all forget about tax cuts or increased spending on such unnecessary fripperies such as education and health while we all work to bail out the banks and those who over lended and borrowed past the point of irresponsibility..
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by jon » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:09 am

Stick-Swinging Incident wrote: Still wouldn't vote for him, as I also have deep disagreements with his ideals, but he showed me today, or should I say he proved what I believed, that he is a man of character.
Yes, I'm probably being unfair on McCain. He is being used in the process as much as Sarah Palin is. After the election, when he has lost, they can turn around and say that they always knew he was too soft. Then the gloves will be off. The Republicans, that is to say those who really run the party, will stop at nothing to prevent their worst nightmare: a successful Obama presidency. Quite possibly, one way or another, they will get their way.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Tokyo_Joe » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:14 pm

Tall Tall Tree wrote:
Wage Slave wrote:[Palin debate flow chart]
[img]Obama%20debate%20flow%20chart[/img]
Regardless of who wins, I suspect the administration of the next 4-8 years will be doing a lot of "Increase taxes/Blame Bush" (probably in the same breath), so Obama's just getting himself psyched up now.
The President has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the President?

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Shawn » Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:55 am

Thoughts on the final debate yesterday? It was the easily the best of the pack. Again, Obama won it. McCain, OTOH, came out swinging, but he was throwing wild punches all night. The landed a zinger or two, but his best line was "I'm not Bush..." :? He's out of ideas. He came across as angry and incoherent, trying to land attacks anywhere he could.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Stick-Swinging Incident » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:04 pm

Shawn wrote:Thoughts on the final debate yesterday? It was the easily the best of the pack. Again, Obama won it. McCain, OTOH, came out swinging, but he was throwing wild punches all night. The landed a zinger or two, but his best line was "I'm not Bush..." :? He's out of ideas. He came across as angry and incoherent, trying to land attacks anywhere he could.
I found Bush, er I mean McCain to be rather like a huffing 12 year old who has gotten one upped by a rival. So he starts snorting "Oh Yeah! Well blah blah blah... Nah!"
What freaked me out a bit was the way McCain was kind of itching to jump on Obama's answers even before he finished him. He had a glazed look like he was about to pounce a few times... that and laughing to himself, which Obama did too.
In all fairness it was a bit noisy around here so I couldn't catch everything both were saying but the facial expressions were telling at times.

Ah well, 2 more weeks or so and it will all be history... that is unless there is a recount... (Cue dark music!!! :twisted: )
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Tall Tall Tree » Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:58 pm

Everybody's always obsessed with who "won" these debates when they're over. It's a rather relative thing, I think. If you're on one guy's side, of course you're going to think that guy did better and the other guy is a bonehead. You already thought that way before the mics were even switched on.

Anyway, I didn't catch this one, but I'm kinda bummed because I heard there were fireworks. I heard some clips on a talk radio show, though. The one in which Obama tried to claim that all of McCain's ads had been bashing him was just dumbfoundingly… uh… dumb. Hell, on the night Obama got the nomination, McCain ran an ad congratulating him! It brought into question whether Obama truly believes all the things that are coming out of his mouth - though if he didn't, perhaps that'd actually be a good thing.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by jon » Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:22 pm

Last debate was a little more entertaining than the others. However, both were mostly pedalling their little pre crisis plans on health etc. like nothing much had happened in the real world. There was very little of real substance on what they intend to do to fix 'the' problem.

Sure McCain said he would bail out the people in trouble with mortgages: quite a big move - but not exactly a fix it in itself. Doing that would only be a fix if it was really true that the whole crisis is based on mortgages. Actually, the truth is: it's not. Even if you backed all the mortgages so that they became A1 securities, these guys in big finance would still be in a whole lot of trouble. They haven't told the whole story of the mess they are in and how they got there by half. As for Obama: he talked about 'fundamental change', but was woefully short on specifics.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Tall Tall Tree » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:13 pm

So, all these videos making McCain/Palin supporters looking dumb?



Of course there was probably some creative editing used to create this… just like in the McCain videos.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Wage Slave » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:17 pm

TTT, I think this clip shows more about the limitations of the US education system than Democrat voters per se. Amusing stuff certainly, but there are two fundamental differences with the earlier material:

1. These people don't appear to be well heeled political activists attending an official rally but rather ordinary citizens caught vox pop in a deprived neighborhood.

2. Yes, they are ignorant and blinkered. Yes, they would probably vote for a monkey on a stick as long as it is member of the Democrat party. However, they are not malicious, don't hurl personal, religious or racial abuse at McCain, and most importantly aren't fierce or violent.
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Tall Tall Tree » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:14 pm

My point in posting that was less about the people in the audio per se and more about the people who made it. The point is that if you take a camera and/or a microphone out into a crowd with a desire to enforce your viewpoint, such as "supporters of X are stupid," then given enough time, you'll find all the footage you need. But in no way is it fair to assume that these clips are indicative of a segment of the population as a whole; every village has its idiots. Surely there were people interviewed who realized that the interview was not talking about Obama's platform and didn't go along with the interviewer. But that audio was simply omitted. Likewise, when asked why Obama shouldn't be President, I'll bet a majority of the people at any given McCain rally would talk about his lack of experience or his economic plan or something. But it's the bumpkins who go "He one uh dem islams!" and "He's a nigger!" that makes it to YouTube.

In the words of Phil Hendrie: Savvy? I don't see what's so hard to understand about this point.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Wage Slave » Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:11 pm

I understand but I do not think you are off the hook in this particular case. The behavior of Republican supporters at their rallies was well reported and not just by a narrow section of the American media. It was noted and covered by the BBC and plenty others. The footage on on You Tube can therefore been seen as fair and representative of a very significant minority of Republican supporters at that time. Also, there was quite a lot of continuity in the footage Shawn posted indicating plenty of willing participants and little editing.

Let's also remember that people were shouting out, inter Alia, "Bomb Obama!" and "Kill Him!" at these rallies.
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Tall Tall Tree » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:42 am

Wage Slave wrote:little editing.
:bang:

All right, fine, you win, whatever. Republicans are a bunch of buck-toothed klansmen.

Nothing lies like a camera.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Wage Slave » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:46 am

No, but the party has moved a long way to the right. Ask Colin Powell.
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by jon » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:34 am

Tall Tall Tree wrote:
Wage Slave wrote:little editing.
:bang:

All right, fine, you win, whatever. Republicans are a bunch of buck-toothed klansmen.

Nothing lies like a camera.
I wouldn't go as far as to say that. However, It's well known that the repbublican party actively cultivates the participation of people whose sentiments are, shall we say 'low brow antagonistic'. Nobody is saying that there aren't members of the rebublican party who don't know how to behave at a white tie charity dinner. However, it really shouldn't come as any surprise to you when the low brow element rear their heads on camera from time to time and voice opinions publicly that others would prefer to be kept in the republican locker room.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Shawn » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:50 am

Fair enough, the idiots on camera are shown through the lens of somebody trying to make a point. But McCain's campaign has undeniably gone negative and plays to a base that's bottom-of-the barrel when it comes to rational thinking. The latest salvo from McCain is that Obama's tax policies are SOCIALIST!!

OMG!! Run for your lives! He'll turn America into a communist state! :axe:

Seriously, who's he trying to fool?

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by jon » Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:21 pm

Exactly. Appealing to the 'base'.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Tall Tall Tree » Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:58 am

Bad behavior at an Obama rally

Go down about a quarter of the page to see a guillotine beheading various Bush Administration figures in effigy. This must of course mean all Obama supporters which to behead Republicans using gruesome medieval technology.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by strongbad » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:01 am

Tall Tall Tree wrote:a guillotine beheading various Bush Administration figures in effigy. This must of course mean all Obama supporters which to behead Republicans using gruesome medieval technology.
You're using the ridiculousness of this assumption to try & draw parallels with the bad press some Republicans have garnered, correct? Your point being that it is just as foolish to make sweeping generalizations about the Democrats based on a reference to the French revolution as it is to make generalizations about the Republicans based on the bigots caught on camera?

The problem with these geniuses caught on video - be they politicians http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg or just your old run o' the mill bigots - http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=bKUovpF9LWU - is that they actually believe these things are right & just. As your post seems to suggest, there's no way anyone - including yourself it would seem - could actually believe people with the big old guillotine wanted to behead anyone.

That's why everyone gets their knickers in a twist about the Republicans caught on camera - there is nothing ridiculous about these people. That they exist is frightening. That they believe someone is unfit to be president based on the color of his skin or his middle name is insulting. That the presidential candidate for the Republican party thinks the best solution to any problems with Iran is to bomb the country and that this is a subject fit for a joke should be enough reason for no-one to vote for him.

It isn't though, is it?

*edited to fix quote*

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by exUsagiCoalMiner » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:00 pm

Okay, a bit off-topic, but sometimes, I'm just really embarrassed to be an American.
Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081028/ap_ ... ad_plot_30
Yahoo! News wrote:Feds disrupt skinhead plot to assassinate Obama
WASHINGTON – Two white supremacists allegedly plotted to go on a national killing spree, shooting and decapitating black people and ultimately targeting Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, federal authorities said Monday.
In all, the two men whom officials described as neo-Nazi skinheads planned to kill 88 people — 14 by beheading, according to documents unsealed in U.S. District Court in Jackson, Tenn. The numbers 88 and 14 are symbolic in the white supremacist community.
The spree, which initially targeted an unidentified predominantly African-American school, was to end with the two men driving toward Obama, "shooting at him from the windows," the court documents show.
"Both individuals stated they would dress in all-white tuxedos and wear top hats during the assassination attempt," the court complaint states. "Both individuals further stated they knew they would and were willing to die during this attempt."
An Obama spokeswoman traveling with the senator in Pennsylvania had no immediate comment.
Sheriffs' deputies in Crockett County, Tenn., arrested the two suspects — Daniel Cowart, 20, of Bells, Tenn., and Paul Schlesselman 18, of Helena-West Helena, Ark. — Oct. 22 on unspecified charges. "Once we arrested the defendants and suspected they had violated federal law, we immediately contacted federal authorities," said Crockett County Sheriff Troy Klyce.
The two were charged by federal authorities Monday with possessing an unregistered firearm, conspiring to steal firearms from a federally licensed gun dealer, and threatening a candidate for president.
Cowart and Schlesselman are being held without bond. Agents seized a rifle, a sawed-off shotgun and three pistols from the men when they were arrested. Authorities alleged the two men were preparing to break into a gun shop to steal more.
Jasper Taylor, city attorney in Bells, said Cowart was arrested on Wednesday. He was held for a few days in Bells, then moved over the weekend to another facility.
"It was kept under lid until today," Taylor said.
Until his arrest, Cowart lived with his grandparents in a southern, rural part of the county, Taylor said, adding that Cowart apparently never graduated from high school. He moved away, possibly to Arkansas or Texas, then returned over the summer, Taylor said.
Attorney Joe Byrd, who has been hired to represent Cowart, did not immediately return a call seeking comment Monday. Messages left on two phone numbers listed under Cowart's name were not immediately returned.
No telephone number for Schlesselman in Helena-West Helena could be found immediately.
The court documents say the two men met about a month ago on the Internet and found common ground in their shared "white power" and "skinhead" philosophy.
The numbers 14 and 88 are symbols in skinhead culture, referring to a 14-word phrase attributed to an imprisoned white supremacist: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children" and to the eighth letter of the alphabet, H. Two "8"s or "H"s stand for "Heil Hitler."
Court records say Cowart and Schlesselman also bought nylon rope and ski masks to use in a robbery or home invasion to fund their spree, during which they allegedly planned to go from state to state and kill people. Agents said the skinheads did not identify the African-American school they were targeting by name.
Jim Cavanaugh, special agent in charge of the Nashville, Tenn., field office for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives, said authorities took the threats very seriously.
"They said that would be their last, final act — that they would attempt to kill Sen. Obama," Cavanaugh said. "They didn't believe they would be able to do it, but that they would get killed trying."
He added: "They seemed determined to do it. Even if they were just to try it, it would be a trail of tears around the South."
An ATF affidavit filed in the case says Cowart and Schlesselman told investigators the day they were arrested they had shot at a glass window at Beech Grove Church of Christ, a congregation of about 60 black members in Brownsville, Tenn.
Nelson Bond, the church secretary and treasurer, said no one was at the church when the shot was fired. Members found the bullet had shattered the glass in the church's front door when they arrived for evening Bible study.
"We have been on this site for about 120 years, and we have never had a problem like this before," said Bond, 53 and a church member for 45 years.
The investigation is continuing, and more charges are possible, Cavanaugh said. He said there's no evidence — so far — that others were willing to assist Cowart and Schlesselman with the plot.
At this point, there does not appear to be any formal assassination plan, Secret Service spokesman Eric Zahren said.
"Whether or not they had the capability or the wherewithal to carry out an attack remains to be seen," he said.
Zahren said the statements about the assassination came out in interviews after the men were arrested last week.
The Secret Service became involved in the investigation once it was clear that an Obama assassination attempt was part of this violent, far-reaching plot.
"We don't discount anything," Zahren said, adding that it's one thing for the defendants to make statements, but it's not the same as having an organized assassination plan.
Helena-West Helena, on the Mississippi River in east Arkansas' Delta, is in one of the nation's poorest regions, trailing even parts of Appalachia in its standard of living. Police Chief Fred Fielder said he had never heard of Schlesselman.
However, the reported threat of attacking a school filled with black students worried Fielder. Helena-West Helena, with a population of 12,200, is 66 percent black. "Predominantly black school, take your pick," he said.
This also begs the question:
If Obama gets elected, how many of these idiot nutjobs will come out of the woodwork and try an assassination?

(Also, and I couldn't find the link again, saw an article where al-Qaida has come out in favor of McCain. That's a pleasant thought...)
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Wage Slave » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:22 pm

Here's a reasonable link for that story:

John McCain endorsed by al Qaeda supporters
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by jon » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:20 pm

exUsagiCoalMiner wrote: This also begs the question: If Obama gets elected, how many of these idiot nutjobs will come out of the woodwork and try an assassination? (Also, and I couldn't find the link again, saw an article where al-Qaida has come out in favor of McCain. That's a pleasant thought...)
A lot of people worry about that. However, Bush has enjoyed extreme levels of protection during his tenure, and no doubt Obama will be getting protection at the same kind of level.

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