And the next leader of the free world will be...

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And the next leader of the free world will be...

Obama. I am hoping it'll be Obama.
23
47%
Obama. However, I am hoping it'll be McCain.
1
2%
McCain. I am hoping it'll be McCain.
3
6%
McCain. However, I am hoping it'll be Obama.
8
16%
*Yawn*
14
29%
 
Total votes: 49

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Shawn » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:11 pm

Who caught the VP debate? Biden came across as being solid on all fronts. He had facts and figures to back up his answers, and he mercilessly slammed Mccain. Palin, OTOH, where to start... She didn't crash and burn, but she proved that her grasp of issues is paper-thin. She is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of her league in this election. I don't think she answered any of the questions put to her and chose to spout the usual McCain campaign talking points that she was no doubt coached to speak. After watching this debate, I seriously wonder if McCain hasn't completely lost his mind. Of all the possible candidates available, why on earth did he pick her? :huh: :huh: :chug: :drunk:

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Buggermeister » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:47 pm

Shawn wrote:After watching this debate, I seriously wonder if McCain hasn't completely lost his mind. Of all the possible candidates available, why on earth did he pick her? :huh: :huh: :chug: :drunk:
I doubt he, or anyone else for that matter, really knew any of this stuff going in to it. After all, it is Alaska... not exactly the heart of constant media scrutiny. :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: It was a hail mary, and it didn't work, I guess.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Wage Slave » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:09 pm

Shawn wrote: but she proved that her grasp of issues is paper-thin. She is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of her league in this election.
Too right. Very weak indeed. She didn't seem to even understand some of the questions never mind have an answer for them. God forbid this woman is foisted on us. Anyway, only 33 days to go and it is starting to look unlikely now.
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Shawn » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:01 pm

Hah. A lesson about money from Duck Tales.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Tall Tall Tree » Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:29 pm

Bwah ha! That was great. I don't remember DuckTales' plot lines being that sophisticated…

And yes, the extra money that was tacked on to the "rescue" bill that passed was all pork. But bullshit accumulates, so I guess we can't be too surprised.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Schizm » Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:18 pm

PaulH doesn't know much about anything.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Wage Slave » Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:11 pm

WTF! Obvious propaganda bullshit as are all the related videos. In my ignorance I thought that American political discourse was above this and idiotic personal slurs such as "palling round with terrorists"

The good thing though is that it reeks of desperation from our friends on the right wing. They have run out of ideas.
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Stick-Swinging Incident » Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:19 pm

Welcome to You Tube, anyone can, and does post shit.
That video is STUPID, regardless if they are sincere or they are taking the piss.

Now some of the comments below that video, THEY are the real scare!
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Tall Tall Tree » Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:41 am

Wage Slave wrote:The good thing though is that it reeks of desperation from our friends on the right wing. They have run out of ideas.
What? Are you trying to say that rightists set this up to make Obama fanatics look bad?

Because we know there's no earnest worship-like glorification coming from the left at all, amirite?

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Wage Slave » Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:37 pm

Well, since there is no information at all on where the clip was filmed or in what context it is not verifiable in any way, so shouldn't be given any credence. Scaremongering is bad enough and one of the least attractive characteristics of the American right these days. I find this film especially offensive because because it employs racial scaremongering.

As for the campaign rally clip. Well it was after all a campaign rally, so you expect people to big it up a bit. I thought a good dose of ersatz sentimentality plus a generous helping of enthusiastic whooping and hollering was the American way of doing these things. I somehow doubt that the McCain/Palin events were sober and modest.
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Tall Tall Tree » Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:48 pm

Wage Slave wrote:Well, since there is no information at all on where the clip was filmed or in what context it is not verifiable in any way, so shouldn't be given any credence. Scaremongering is bad enough and one of the least attractive characteristics of the American right these days. I find this film especially offensive because because it employs racial scaremongering.
Did you read the "more info" text? There's an account of how the clip came to be in there. Sure, it might be BS, but it seems plausible.

As for it being racial scaremongering… Let's address the first part, "racial." Is it racial because all the kids in it happen to be black? It would be no less frightening if they were all white or a mixed group; no need to bring race into it. As for "scaremongering," assuming the clip is legit, then it's merely reporting on a real event in the world. It's scary, but so is North Korea restarting their nuclear reactor (OH GEE, DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING) or an increase in violence in Afghanistan. Should we ignore those stories because they're scary too?

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Wage Slave » Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:20 pm

Sorry just couldn't and still can't find the more info text . I take it that there isn't any verifiable information there.

The first comment when I looked again just now for the info text was:
This is just the beginning...
wait until they begin the BLACK liberation AGENDA....holy shit will you whites crap your pants for voting this douche bag into office.

you have 3 weeks left know your facts, rights and make sure you chose wisely before you head out to the polls on Nov 4th.

you might have to pray and obey to SHARIA law in 2 years and pray to ALLAH in a MOSQUE and have all your amendments revoked because Obama is our new LEADER and LAW
No need to bring race into it my Aunt Fanny! :eyes:
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Stick-Swinging Incident » Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:45 pm

Its on the right Wage Slave. There is a brief description of the video, then a (More Info) link about 3 lines into it.

Its complete BS. Talks about political adgendas and how worshipping Obama is bad. (er Inspire and Worship to me are different things, but hey, what do I know.) Me, I am inspired by some people, but don't worship too many of em... (not even Mogs Avatar! :omfg: )

If you read it you can see this poster has taken it all out of context. Obama visited this Urban Youth center I believe. The teens there did this to show that they were inspired by him, and, while its not the most traditional form of expression, hey, it IS the land of the free!

But of course, they are militants, in Obama's army according to this guy... Mind you...He ends it with Jesus Christ is the savior ... etc... so... I guess he's not pushing anything either.

:roll:
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Wage Slave » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:21 pm

Thank you for that and thank you for the summary of the context. On the right when I view it, I have a description of another video from the same poster and there is a bit of update there. It pretty much confirms your assessment. Be afraid! :roll: In context It is about as scary as a high school production of Sleeping Beauty.

BTW, TTT, have you seen "The Power of Nightmares?". I don't suppose you will agree with it but it does an excellent job of exploring how the politics of fear work and how an exaggerated sense of fear and threat has been created. By manipulating that fear the NeoCons have successfully prosecuted their cause far beyond, I suspect, their wildest dreams at the end of the last century. It also looks pretty closely at what kind of organisation Al Qaeda really is, what real dangers it presents and the best way to respond. Lots of food for thought at a minimum.
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by RalphWiggum » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:08 pm

The Power of Nightmares was one of the best pieces of TV I've ever seen.
Shit wank bollocks

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Shawn » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:49 pm

Any reaction to the second Obama/McCain debate? It was a carbon copy of the first one. Much of the same ground was covered again and the same answers were given. :zzz: To that extent, Obama came out the winner again. MCain, however, really came across as a mental midget, IMO. He trotted out the "I know more," "have more experience," and "Obama doesn't understand" lines but did not or could not elaborate. Every time Obama spoke, he showed how baseless those claims were.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Tall Tall Tree » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:05 pm

Yeah, it was pretty boring. Second night blues, maybe. Both of them came off especially blowhardy, seeing as how often Brokaw had to remind them to stick to the time limits. I think debate moderators should get switches for the microphones so that whenever candidates go over time or start answering a different question or something, they can just mute them and move on.

Nothing will be changed by this debate.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by MacGyver » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:27 pm

I think the problem is with the current formats of the debates, hence they tend to be dull. Something akin to a more traditional debate would be better I reckon. Each candidate is given the same, say 5, topics and they have to outline their platform as per that topic in turn. Then they get to retort and/or ask each other questions and basically go at it head to head. Could be even room for questions from a moderator and/or audience members. That way they get a chance to spell out their platforms clearly in those areas and get to debate the issues head to head, which is a lot more exciting than rambling about talking points and not even answering the questions directly. The current format might work if they answered the questions directly and not just repeating the same old rhetoric. It would certainly give viewers a better idea of specifics to each candidate's policies and might even be entertaining watching them poke holes in each other's policies! :thumbsup:
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Shawn » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:45 am

Yeah, the debates aren't true debates, but carefully scripted events. That's a shame, because I don't think there has been a serious discussion by any of the candidates on any issue. It all gets distilled down into 2 minutes sound bites. :(

Now that the McCain campaign has gone really negative, I have to ask: Is this the best McCain can do after two debates? is that all he has? If it is, then he's sunk unless voters chicken out in the voting booth.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Tall Tall Tree » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:40 pm

Shawn wrote:Now that the McCain campaign has gone really negative, I have to ask: Is this the best McCain can do after two debates? is that all he has? If it is, then he's sunk unless voters chicken out in the voting booth.
I'm not sure that's a fair question from someone whose lot is already securely cast for the other guy. Is there anything he possibly could do that would make you change your mind?

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by MacGyver » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:14 pm

Tall Tall Tree wrote:I'm not sure that's a fair question from someone whose lot is already securely cast for the other guy. Is there anything he possibly could do that would make you change your mind?
Yeah, change his policies.
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Shawn » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:15 pm

Tall Tall Tree wrote:I'm not sure that's a fair question from someone whose lot is already securely cast for the other guy. Is there anything he possibly could do that would make you change your mind?
I like to think there is. I'm talking of McCain's performance. He's utterly unconvincing. He loves to say "I know how to...", "I can get bin laden", "I've been to X country and met Y person..." Well that's great, how about articulating what all that experience translates into for the nation? I don't think he has anything compelling to say or offer.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by jon » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:28 pm

For an old guy, I would say McCain is handling the stresses of campaigning pretty well. However, he really looks like a deadbeat up there. He's lucky that Obama didn't really go after him in the debate, and seemed a little toungue tied himself some ofthe time. I guess he's sticking with the aloof style, and that will probably do it for him.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by MacGyver » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:55 pm

jon wrote:For an old guy, I would say McCain is handling the stresses of campaigning pretty well. However, he really looks like a deadbeat up there. He's lucky that Obama didn't really go after him in the debate, and seemed a little toungue tied himself some ofthe time. I guess he's sticking with the aloof style, and that will probably do it for him.
But that's how the republicans like their candidates. The last time anyone with any charisma was nominated it was Ronald Reagan. For someone with any intelligence, you'd have to go much further back than that....
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Are they the lemmings? » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:07 pm

This opinion piece makes some interesting points about presidential debates.

We often hear about how staged and essentially pointless modern debates are, and how the candidates should be allowed to really debate each other at length about the issues.

The oft-used comparison is the debate between Lincoln and Douglas in 1858 but, as the author points out, in those days:
...The first speaker would have an hour to present his views; the second would rebut in an hour and a half, whereupon the first speaker would be given the floor again for half an hour to rebut the rebuttal. There would be no moderator.

[...] In the age of television, debates like those of the Lincoln-Douglas era would probably eliminate most of the audience. Who in America is going to sit for three hours while the candidates make long speeches? And, by the way, [in those times], the audience wouldn't sit through the speeches. They would stand.
So, perhaps it's not realistic to expect debates like that.

Still (moving away from the topic of this thread for a bit), I'm a sucker for erudite speakers. Obama's oratory style is very motivational and, although the US election doesn't concern me, I like listening to his speeches just for listening pleasure. And I admire people who speak in correct grammar. You know, people who don't mix up their tenses and leave no participle dangling; when they speak, you can almost hear the punctuation.

Churchill was good, as was David Lange (this is a good example of Lange's speaking style), and I liked Tony Blair's speaking style as well.

If there was any oratory justice in the world, Jed Bartlett would be president.

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Wage Slave » Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:19 pm

So Palin did attempt to use her position as governor to have a man dismissed from his job. Her reason for depriving him of his livelihood? He was in dispute with a member of her immediate family.

Link

Whether or not there were other reasons to legitimately dismiss the Mike Wooten's boss when he refused to do it is neither here nor there. The fact is she tried to have Mike Wooten, her brother in law, fired because of a personal dispute.

In no way is this woman qualified to be vice president. McCain must have lost his mind when he accepted her as running mate. At a minimum it calls his judgement into question.
Last edited by Wage Slave on Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Shawn » Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:33 pm

If Obama's lead in the poll increases and the likelihood of him being elected president grows, how ugly could things get?

:bang: :eyes: :shock:

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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Wage Slave » Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:19 pm

Ugly, pig ignorant, deluded, prejudiced, malicious and fierce. Yuck.
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by Stick-Swinging Incident » Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:44 pm

Who was it said.

"The good thing about Democracy is that everyone gets a vote... The bad thing about Democracy is that everyone gets a vote"

Man this is SO true...
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Re: And the next leader of the free world will be...

Unread post by S-B » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:08 am


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