The Parasite out sourcing companies.

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jchel
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The Parasite out sourcing companies.

Unread post by jchel » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:42 pm

So I think we all agree that these outsourcing companies here, Interac, Altia et all, are parasites.
Giving the kids here a 3rd rate English education because the kyoukuinkai ‘s are too lazy to do their jobs properly.
The question I have for those who care is: What do we do about it?
Any suggestion gratefully appreciated.

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Tall Tall Tree
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Re: The Parasite out sourcing companies.

Unread post by Tall Tall Tree » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:58 am

Don't work for them, and convince others not to do so as well. If they can't get teachers using their current tactics, they'll have to change. Unfortunately, it probably won't be enough, since there's always more suckers, but no harm in at least educating as many people as you can.

jchel
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Re: The Parasite out sourcing companies.

Unread post by jchel » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:00 am

Yes can't disagree. I do try even to the point of agreeing bit then they generally do what is common here.
Do the three wise monkys trick.

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Re: The Parasite out sourcing companies.

Unread post by bostonaussie » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:15 am

Wow .. seems like shit is getting real with the dispatch companies and all. I guess its similar in ways to Hagwon work here in Korea. Shitty management looking to make a buck at the kids expense.

Inakanosensei
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Re: The Parasite out sourcing companies.

Unread post by Inakanosensei » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:10 am

jchel wrote:So I think we all agree that these outsourcing companies here, Interac, Altia et all, are parasites.
Giving the kids here a 3rd rate English education because the kyoukuinkai ‘s are too lazy to do their jobs properly.
...
I think you have summed them up really well in two sentences.

Hopefully somebody will take legal action against them someday. The central government recommended that local BOEs stop using the outsourcing companies but they don't do anything to really stop them. After leaving Nova I liked Interac for a while but then I came to realize that they are parasites, like you said.

steki47

Re: The Parasite out sourcing companies.

Unread post by steki47 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:53 am

Inakanosensei wrote: The central government recommended that local BOEs stop using the outsourcing companies but they don't do anything to really stop them.
Interesting. Got a link?

I have been bouncing around dispatch companies for 3 years now. I still feel that direct hire ALTs would be better at attracting and keeping motivated and qualified teachers. On the other hand, the ALT job is stupid easy and most foreigners don't stick around very long. Not sure there is much motivation for BOEs to change or invest in long-term foreign teachers.

Not my personal ideal, just my take on things.

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Re: The Parasite out sourcing companies.

Unread post by Inakanosensei » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:30 pm

steki47 wrote:
Inakanosensei wrote: The central government recommended that local BOEs stop using the outsourcing companies but they don't do anything to really stop them.
Interesting. Got a link?

I have been bouncing around dispatch companies for 3 years now. I still feel that direct hire ALTs would be better at attracting and keeping motivated and qualified teachers. On the other hand, the ALT job is stupid easy and most foreigners don't stick around very long. Not sure there is much motivation for BOEs to change or invest in long-term foreign teachers.

Not my personal ideal, just my take on things.
I understand what you mean. So many foreigners come and go. The turn over rate could be high even for direct hire jobs. Being sent to different schools by Intercrap kept things interesting and I pretty much knew I had a job (whether good or bad) from year to year. So, there are good things about dispatch companies.

I guess I wanted to see the end of dispatch and the start of direct hire so that we could get better pay, more job stability (an end to those stressful year-end contract signings), and shakai hoken. The dispatch companies are breaking the law by not enrolling their employees in it. Intercrap played games by claiming the ALTs were gyomu itaku dispatch workers working less than 30 hours a week so they wouldn't have to keep hiring them year-after-year and so they wouldn't have to give them shakai hoken. From what I have heard, the government thinks that if you have worked at the same job for something like 3 to 5 years, even as a dispatch worker, your company cannot fire you unless they have good grounds. And just being a "bad worker" is not enough excuse. The worker would have to be useless or causing harm to the company. But I think that gyomu itaku dispatch workers can be cut loose because they are kind of like independent contractors. Perhaps like an accountant or software developer hired or contracted to temporarily do a project at a company. It's BS because gyomu itaku are not allowed to take any work-related direction from people at the company. If they do, they become regular haken shain and the clock starts ticking for permanent employment. To get around this, one sleazy BOE temporarily "fired" its ALTs and rehired them to restart the clock.

I am not sure where there might be a copy of the central government's directive (advice? warning?) about not using dispatch ALTs. I only heard it indirectly but I think I heard it a few times. For ethical reasons, the BOEs should not use dispatch companies that break the law by refusing to enroll their employees in shakai hoken. It's awful that the lone gaijin in the school is the only instructor who is not getting a pension contribution from the employer. I understand that many foreign ALTs don't want to pay half of their pension contribution, but it is the law. I wouldn't have minded if Intercrap had made it optional (which is illegal, too) but instead they totally refused to obey the law.

I don't mean this as a rant towards you at all and I sincerely apologize if it seems that way. I liked being an ALT for a while and wish the best for anybody who is doing that job. What really bugs me is that these companies are exploiting their workers, even if the workers don't care. The Intercrap and their ilk should get huge fines and their managers should do jail time.

OK, rant over. :D

EDIT: With just a lazy/quick search, I found this: http://fukuoka.generalunion.org/alt/

"In 2005 the Ministry of Education (MOE) issued a directive (MOE directive16-121, 17 Feb 2005) stating that sub-contracting ALTs may contravene the dispatch laws and that they “should endeavour to directly hire excellent ALTs”."

steki47

Re: The Parasite out sourcing companies.

Unread post by steki47 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:24 pm

Inakanosensei wrote:I don't mean this as a rant towards you at all and I sincerely apologize if it seems that way. I liked being an ALT for a while and wish the best for anybody who is doing that job. What really bugs me is that these companies are exploiting their workers, even if the workers don't care. The Intercrap and their ilk should get huge fines and their managers should do jail time.
No offense taken. I have no illusions that these companies have my best interests at heart. Or education, for that matter. I have accepted my role as rental moneky as it comes with a ton of holiday and rather easy, if unsatisfying, work.

The three year coolingoff period really shows how little the BOEs really care about this program. I don't entire blame the dispatch companies for responding to an opening in the market. Companies (including BOEs) are not investing in long-term employees and of course someone will jump in to fit that need. Don't hate the playa, hate the game, as it were.

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Re: The Parasite out sourcing companies.

Unread post by Inakanosensei » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:59 am

steki47 wrote:
Inakanosensei wrote:I don't mean this as a rant towards you at all and I sincerely apologize if it seems that way. I liked being an ALT for a while and wish the best for anybody who is doing that job. What really bugs me is that these companies are exploiting their workers, even if the workers don't care. The Intercrap and their ilk should get huge fines and their managers should do jail time.
No offense taken. I have no illusions that these companies have my best interests at heart. Or education, for that matter. I have accepted my role as rental moneky as it comes with a ton of holiday and rather easy, if unsatisfying, work.

The three year coolingoff period really shows how little the BOEs really care about this program. I don't entire blame the dispatch companies for responding to an opening in the market. Companies (including BOEs) are not investing in long-term employees and of course someone will jump in to fit that need. Don't hate the playa, hate the game, as it were.
Good point. If the rules don't change, or there's no enforcement, there's no reason to expect that the BOEs and dispatch companies will change.

I was burnt out after five and a half years as an ALT but I have to admit that when it was good it was a lot better than eikaiwa work at Nova. Nova had its good moments, too, but not near as many.

I thought with adding English as a subject in elementary school there might be a huge increase in ALTs but maybe this isn't the case.

A slightly funny thing happened recently. I think maybe because I had Googled Interac or something, when I visited YouTube an Interac popped up. I guess they try to send ads related to things you have searched.

steki47

Re: The Parasite out sourcing companies.

Unread post by steki47 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:11 pm

Even with the pay cut, I am very happy I switched from eikaiwa to ALT. Day job, long holidays-really changed my life for the better.

steki47

Re: The Parasite out sourcing companies.

Unread post by steki47 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:15 pm

Can't remember where I read it, but I heard that the number of ALTs went up recently. Quality of job may not, I imagine.

Side note: I read of other Asian nations that have s lower rate of ALTs yet produce higher levels of English ability. Hmmm

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Re: The Parasite out sourcing companies.

Unread post by Inakanosensei » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:24 am

steki47 wrote:Can't remember where I read it, but I heard that the number of ALTs went up recently. Quality of job may not, I imagine.

Side note: I read of other Asian nations that have s lower rate of ALTs yet produce higher levels of English ability. Hmmm
That's interesting. It stands to reason, though, with the English now being an official elementary school subject. The last year I was there the schools had textbooks with some kind of interactive software to use on large-screen TVs to help the teachers who were low in English confidence. I give those non-English-experienced teachers credit for picking up a subject they had never taught before. But they might want more ALTs to help out because of the low levels of confidence.

steki47 wrote:Even with the pay cut, I am very happy I switched from eikaiwa to ALT. Day job, long holidays-really changed my life for the better.
I was the same. I took around a 30,000 yen a month pay cut to switch over and really liked the Monday-Friday, all early schedule. Plus summer vacation. Nova lived up to its nickname of NO-VAcation with work on all national holidays except New Year.

I think ALT work is good but I was just unhappy with Interac keeping us Chiba ALTs off of SH.

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Re: The Parasite out sourcing companies.

Unread post by lordCONAN » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:58 am

I have to say, after eikaiwa, I thoroughly enjoyed my year as an ALT an elementary schools. Like everyone else, I took a rather large pay cut, but was working, at most 4 hours a day, often having Mondays off, because were I work, few schools had English lessons on Mondays, often got free lunch at the school, and had next to no responsibilities, because in Hiroshima, apart from the homeroom teacher, there is also a Japanese English teacher, and then you, the ALT.

The only problem I had (besides poor remuneration, and no enrollment in SH) was the lack of stability with the position. Each year the company would be up for a bidding war for the contract renewal with the BoE. Unfortunately my company lost the year I started, meaning I was out of the job after a year.

Luckily, I was hired full time by a private high school. While I have much more responsibility (responsible for an entire english subject, making tests, teaching all classes by myself, other school responsibilities) and I often have to work on Saturdays for classes or other school events, the pay raise, plus large bonuses twice a year, 20 paid days of vacation, and the feeling of actually being apart of something and not just passing through, certainly make it worthwhile. Hell, I'm even getting paid to go to Singapore next week.

Anyway, while I would prefer the BoE direct hired ALTs, I don't think my outsourcing company treated me poorly. Let's be honest, even with the pay cut, I was probably getting paid way more than I should have for the amount of work I actually had to do.

steki47

Re: The Parasite out sourcing companies.

Unread post by steki47 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:56 am

lordCONAN wrote: Let's be honest, even with the pay cut, I was probably getting paid way more than I should have for the amount of work I actually had to do.
I always remind myself of this when I start to gripe about my ALT gig. Yes, it sucks watching salaries go down, but do the math...

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Re: The Parasite out sourcing companies.

Unread post by angryboy » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:46 am

steki47 wrote:
lordCONAN wrote: Let's be honest, even with the pay cut, I was probably getting paid way more than I should have for the amount of work I actually had to do.
I always remind myself of this when I start to gripe about my ALT gig. Yes, it sucks watching salaries go down, but do the math...
But then there is the other side of the coin.I had a mate working in a H.S. through one of these scumbag companies and he was
at the school nine hours a day,could`t even leave the grounds on his lunch break and when not teaching had to be in the office
preparing lessons.
Which all would have been fair enough had it been a real job but he was always stuffed around,lied to,treated second rate,excluded etc.
[quote="valve-bouncer"]Fuck me, I hope to christ you are a troll because the possibility of someone so mind-numbingly boring as you walking amongst us gives me the fear.[/quote]

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Re: The Parasite out sourcing companies.

Unread post by lordCONAN » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:00 pm

angryboy wrote: But then there is the other side of the coin.I had a mate working in a H.S. through one of these scumbag companies and he was
at the school nine hours a day,could`t even leave the grounds on his lunch break and when not teaching had to be in the office
preparing lessons.
Which all would have been fair enough had it been a real job but he was always stuffed around,lied to,treated second rate,excluded etc.
Lol. I can leave the school ground whenever I want, well as long as I'm not in a class. I can sign myself out if I have to do something related to work, eg. checking out/buying english books for the english club, if I'm not teaching and I've done everything I need to do, I just surf the internet.

That said, when the kids are on vacation, the teachers are not. Usually I've got nothing to do, so I go into work and read reddit all day.

steki47

Re: The Parasite out sourcing companies.

Unread post by steki47 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:53 pm

angryboy wrote:But then there is the other side of the coin.I had a mate working in a H.S. through one of these scumbag companies and he was
at the school nine hours a day,could`t even leave the grounds on his lunch break and when not teaching had to be in the office
preparing lessons.
Which all would have been fair enough had it been a real job but he was always stuffed around,lied to,treated second rate,excluded etc.
That sounds horrible. My contract says 8:30-4:30 and we all stick to that. At my last company, I got away with leaving early. New company has us using the hanko sheets and the VPs won't give it to me until 4:25.

Other than that, I only work when I have class. I read a lot and am getting straight A's in grad school. I leave the school at times for quick trips to the conibin or post office.

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Re: The Parasite out sourcing companies.

Unread post by Inakanosensei » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:18 pm

It sounds like many ALT positions can be hit or miss. The ones I had were like that, too. One school made me stay from 8 to 4:45PM even if there was no work but other places would let me go home after I finished my classes.

For a short time, some high schools would even tell me I didn't have to come in if there wasn't any work. In another high school all the teachers stayed in teacher rooms for each grade (1st year teachers room, etc.) so I had the English department room to myself all day. But at another high school my supervisor kept me until 5PM and had me doing eikaiwa practice with kids after school. She even had me do it in the lunch break a couple of times.

allblacks

Re: The Parasite out sourcing companies.

Unread post by allblacks » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:34 pm

There are even parasite out sourcing translation companies out there. I had contact with one of these a week ago. They were looking for someone to come into their clients office and assist with some game software debug or something. They would not tell me how much they were paying and demanded that I go to a meeting to discuss the job. To me that sounded too much like they try to force you into taking a SHITTY rate of pay for the work so I declined.

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Re: The Parasite out sourcing companies.

Unread post by Inakanosensei » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:17 am

allblacks wrote:There are even parasite out sourcing translation companies out there. I had contact with one of these a week ago. They were looking for someone to come into their clients office and assist with some game software debug or something. They would not tell me how much they were paying and demanded that I go to a meeting to discuss the job. To me that sounded too much like they try to force you into taking a SHITTY rate of pay for the work so I declined.
It seems like unscrupulous people will always look for new ways to exploit humanity. :(

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