Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by behan » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:01 pm

Novawhiz, do you know if there are any other blogs or websites like yours around any more?

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by yoshifumi tanaka » Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:10 pm

novawhiz wrote:The "Eikaiwa Wiki" was a fun project of mine - Interact got it taken down because they didn't want people to see information linking them to the Mormons.
I enjoyed that Eikaiwa Wiki, if you dont mind telling how exactly did they get it taken down? And is there any way of getting it back up, even if it'Is in non-wiki form?

As for monitoring the internet, I knew of some ex-nova AT's who used to trawl the internet looking for photos of teachers and students together, guess they were hoping to show them to the company or something.

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by allblacks » Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:58 pm

yoshifumi tanaka wrote:
novawhiz wrote:The "Eikaiwa Wiki" was a fun project of mine - Interact got it taken down because they didn't want people to see information linking them to the Mormons.
I enjoyed that Eikaiwa Wiki, if you dont mind telling how exactly did they get it taken down? And is there any way of getting it back up, even if it'Is in non-wiki form?

As for monitoring the internet, I knew of some ex-nova AT's who used to trawl the internet looking for photos of teachers and students together, guess they were hoping to show them to the company or something.
Ah the famous illegal non-association "policy." What a loada crappo. Moving on...

My company definetely researched me. I know because they asked me how long I had been renting.

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by japansmith » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:08 am

novawhiz wrote:I don't want to go into the exact details, but I do commend Interac on their perserverence - I didn't make it easy for them to identify exactly 'who' to contact to sen...............to dig up information and posts on a lot of different school and experiences and made them into articles that were entertaining and educating to a degree. There were a few people that got quite involved with the project and contributed a substantial amount...
The fastest way to see the eikaiwa wiki again would be to get shawn to host it here at lets japan - so mssg him :eyes:
I liked your wiki as well. It was a great idea and complemented let's japan nicely. I think I've only ever been to gaijinpot about twice and it was just too annoying for me so I gave up.
Shawn? What do you say to hosting an eikaiwa wiki?

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by Ziggy » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:13 am

novawhiz wrote:Nova used to print out every page that had a mention of the company in it.
Now that's funny. Even if mcnova didn't go bankrupt because of the incompetence of Monkeybridge abd his bootlicking (mis)management crew they would have gone bust because of all the paper they would have to buy.
So little is our loss,
So little is thy gain!

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by Shawn » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:20 am

japansmith wrote:Shawn? What do you say to hosting an eikaiwa wiki?
Actually, I have a copy of novawhiz's wiki. The plan was to host it on LJ. Sadly, the wiki needs PHP 5 to run and my host is using an older version, so we're out of luck in that department until they decide to upgrade. :cry: I'm open to suggestions. I'd like to see the wiki back up as it was a good resource. A lot of work has obviously been put into it.

EDIT: One alternative is to use an older version of media wiki. I'll have to look into this.

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by pink tag » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:39 am

guardian.co.uk,
Monday April 02 2007

Blogger beware!
With firms now trawling the net to check on prospective employees, you can't assume that writing a blog even under a pseudonym is 100% safe.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ggerbeware

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by Shawn » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:54 am

novawhiz wrote:
Shawn wrote:Yep, that would work fine.... It would probably be best to start with a blank wiki (less worry about incompatability between versions) , let pages grow naturally more or less. some, none, or all information from the original eikaiwa wiki would be pretty easy to just copy and paste a whole article at a time.
OK, I'll get on this tonight. Copy and paste sounds nasty. Hopefully I can start with what has already been created.

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by Shawn » Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:31 pm

novawhiz wrote:I'll look into downgrading the version of mediawiki I have.. it's possible that if I downgrade to the version that uses php 4.x that I can then save the database and it will be possible to import the data without any problems.
Let me know if you succeed. Downgrading seems to be the biggest hurdle to clear.

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by behan » Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:39 pm

If I remember correctly, I think someone at one of the yahoo groups about Nova (maybe The Truth About Nova?) said that they saw Nova IP addresses in some of the pro-Nova posts.

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by Tall Tall Tree » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:04 pm

I have a couple of hosting accounts that I'm not using up which have PHP 5. If the downgrading thing fails and you're cool with someone else besides Shawn hosting it, hit me up.

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by yoshifumi tanaka » Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:02 am

novawhiz wrote:I don't want to go into the exact details, but I do commend Interac on their perserverence - I didn't make it easy for them to identify exactly 'who' to contact to send a take down notice to. I had the option to remove the offending material (which was actually a cut and paste from a message board) but I decided that I would take the site elsewhere in the future.
The other option would be for shawn to host the eikaiwa wiki himself. I communicated with him about doing that and at the time his hosting provider didn't have the right version of PHP to run mediawiki (the wiki backend software) ... this might have changed though... Shawn, if you're still interested the sites all yours...
I will say that I took the time to dig up information and posts on a lot of different school and experiences and made them into articles that were entertaining and educating to a degree. There were a few people that got quite involved with the project and contributed a substantial amount...
The fastest way to see the eikaiwa wiki again would be to get shawn to host it here at lets japan - so mssg him :eyes:
Thanks for answering Novawhiz,
I actually find it outragoeus that Interac would get it taken down. These people are dispatching Teachers to public schools, teaching the young minds of Japan and yet and the same time curtailing free speech. Shame on Interac.
If you can get it up and secure from evil Interac, that'd be great.
And a big thanks to Shawn for this site and offering to host it.

The eikaiwa wiki would also be a great place for the kind of info Mogura has been building on eikaiwa law etc.

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by Stick-Swinging Incident » Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:04 am

Just a question about this wiki. Tall Tree was trying to create a living in Japan wiki. This sounds different but related.

As for me, the only wiki I really have time for is the Q wiki :wink:





Percy you are a wit... well half way anyways.
Nothing to say, 30 threads to say it in.
:blah:
[i][size=150][color=#4040FF] §[/color][/size][/i]

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by yoshifumi tanaka » Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:23 am

Stick-Swinging Incident wrote:Just a question about this wiki. Tall Tree was trying to create a living in Japan wiki. This sounds different but related.

As for me, the only wiki I really have time for is the Q wiki :wink:





Percy you are a wit... well half way anyways.
Nothing to say, 30 threads to say it in.
:blah:
There used to be an eikaiwa wiki, very informative, but it got taken down last year, it seems by Interac,
its differenct from the living in japan wiki
but all wikis are good,

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by senseiman » Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:37 am

I should note that it isn't unusual for a company to not want its employees blogging about the workplace.

I think Eikaiwa is one of the rare jobs where employees have a natural interest in blogging about their work experiences because it is interesting to the folks back home, but at the same time the company doesn't want to have employees writing bad stuff about the company.

Like I work at a law firm in Canada now and I have a blog. I would never in a million years write anything about my workplace on my blog. Partially that is because it wouldn't be very interesting and partially it is because of the nature of the work (which demands confidentiality). Also though is just the sort of common sense realization that its just not appropriate. The bosses own the company name and they don't want people who google it to come up with a personal blog with some guy yammering on about the workplace. Even if I only said nice things it wouldn't look very professional and, of course, the bosses would have no guarantees that I would continue to post nothing but nice things.
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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by SNAFU » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:48 am

senseiman wrote:I should note that it isn't unusual for a company to not want its employees blogging about the workplace.

I think Eikaiwa is one of the rare jobs where employees have a natural interest in blogging about their work experiences because it is interesting to the folks back home, but at the same time the company doesn't want to have employees writing bad stuff about the company.

Like I work at a law firm in Canada now and I have a blog. I would never in a million years write anything about my workplace on my blog. Partially that is because it wouldn't be very interesting and partially it is because of the nature of the work (which demands confidentiality). Also though is just the sort of common sense realization that its just not appropriate. The bosses own the company name and they don't want people who google it to come up with a personal blog with some guy yammering on about the workplace. Even if I only said nice things it wouldn't look very professional and, of course, the bosses would have no guarantees that I would continue to post nothing but nice things.
SNAFU:
I'm sure ex-Nova President, Saruhashi, and the new mob that run Nova completely agree with you. :)

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by senseiman » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:08 am

SNAFU wrote:
senseiman wrote:I should note that it isn't unusual for a company to not want its employees blogging about the workplace.

I think Eikaiwa is one of the rare jobs where employees have a natural interest in blogging about their work experiences because it is interesting to the folks back home, but at the same time the company doesn't want to have employees writing bad stuff about the company.

Like I work at a law firm in Canada now and I have a blog. I would never in a million years write anything about my workplace on my blog. Partially that is because it wouldn't be very interesting and partially it is because of the nature of the work (which demands confidentiality). Also though is just the sort of common sense realization that its just not appropriate. The bosses own the company name and they don't want people who google it to come up with a personal blog with some guy yammering on about the workplace. Even if I only said nice things it wouldn't look very professional and, of course, the bosses would have no guarantees that I would continue to post nothing but nice things.
SNAFU:
I'm sure ex-Nova President, Saruhashi, and the new mob that run Nova completely agree with you. :)
I'm sure they'd agree with me on a lot of things (the sky is blue, etc) but that really isn't relevant.

I'm not saying people shouldn't vent about their employers on boards like this, I mean I posted tons of crap when I was working in Eikaiwa.

I'm just saying that if you are posting bad stuff about your employer you can'[t really complain if they take you to task for it.

A lot of the work I do now is in the area of employment law and (in North America anyway) there is no question that criticizing your employer in a public forum would give your employer cause to immediately terminate your employment.
祇園精舎の鐘の聲、諸行無常の響あり。娑羅雙樹の花の色、盛者必衰のことわりをあらはす。おごれる人も久しからず、唯春の夜の夢のごとし。たけき者も遂にほろびぬ、偏に風の前の塵に同じ。

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by yoshifumi tanaka » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:25 pm

So hows that eikaiwa wiki re-boot coming?

Could you guys solve your server/software compatability troubles?

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by Shawn » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:02 pm

I'm still fiddling with things on my end. I can run an older version of mediwiki but not the latest version novawhiz is using. I could start from scratch by simply setting up a blank wiki but I would like to get novawhiz's stuff up in its original form.

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by yoshifumi tanaka » Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:04 am

Shawn wrote:I'm still fiddling with things on my end. I can run an older version of mediwiki but not the latest version novawhiz is using. I could start from scratch by simply setting up a blank wiki but I would like to get novawhiz's stuff up in its original form.
So while this computer stuff is going on, it there any chance we could get the offending Interac stuff back online, either on here as a post , or posted on a blogspot or something?

It seems a shame to let them get away with curtailing free speech.

Novawhizz?

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by asilenthope » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:09 am

Well, with the amount of information about myself that I've posted on these forums, I'm sure that anyone at ECC (with the access to the necessary information, of course) could figure out my identity. Especially as I am about to update an old thread and reveal where I've been posted.

However, despite this, ECC has given me no indication that they don't want to hire me (I mean, I've already bought my ticket, and everything else) so I think that they're probably ok with me posting on this forum.
Furthermore, coming from a business education, I do believe there is a very serious issue of company privacy, and that you can be held liable for libel. I do also believe in freedom of speech, but I think people should be responsible and careful in what they write. I think protecting your identity on the Internet is always important, and I think the original post had some really wonderful and valuable tips in it.

I know that if I had a company, I would look for what people were saying about it, and if someone from my company was saying bad things about my company, I would fire them. It's just good business sense. You want the people working for you to be happy, and if they're not happy, you probably don't want them working for you. I'm not saying that firing people eliminates the problem, but you know what I mean.
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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by asilenthope » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:53 pm

Yes, Langslave, I do see what you are saying.

I agree, if my employees were complaining about the company to the company, then I don't think there is a problem there. If employees are complaining about the company outside of the company, without first having made a complaint within the company, then I think there is a problem.

Attempting to fix things is great. However, things that are bad at the company are the company's dirty laundry, and shouldn't be aired to outsiders, without that problem first being present to the company (Sorry, my English is suffering slightly because I'm tired).

Offering employees the option to quit before firing them is interesting, and I think that could work well in the Japanese society, where "face" is so often a large issue. However, I believe in America, you would simply be fired.

What I find is common in America is that customers will complain about service or products that a company has provided, and rightly so. Customers have no obligation to complain to the company, although it is actually within the company's best interests that the customer do so, so the company has a chance to resolve it.

Employees, on the other hand, have an obligation to first complain to the company before they complain to outsiders. Of course, this doesn't happen (especially over trivial complaints), but that is really how I feel business works in America.

So, to sum: if the employee took measures to file a complaint or grievance, or if it was documented that they mentioned the issue or problem, then I agree that it's the company's responsibility to address that issue rather than firing people left and right. But if the employee made no effort to speak about this problem to the company, and instead complains in a very public way, then I feel the company is well within its rights to fire the employee. The employee, in the second case, did not even give his company a chance to privately resolve the issue, which is how the system works.

Or at least, that's my opinion. Sorry if I wasn't very clear in my earlier post.
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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by eb0li » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:56 pm

asilenthope wrote:Yes, Langslave, I do see what you are saying.

I agree, if my employees were complaining about the company to the company, then I don't think there is a problem there. If employees are complaining about the company outside of the company, without first having made a complaint within the company, then I think there is a problem.

Attempting to fix things is great. However, things that are bad at the company are the company's dirty laundry, and shouldn't be aired to outsiders, without that problem first being present to the company (Sorry, my English is suffering slightly because I'm tired).

Offering employees the option to quit before firing them is interesting, and I think that could work well in the Japanese society, where "face" is so often a large issue. However, I believe in America, you would simply be fired.

What I find is common in America is that customers will complain about service or products that a company has provided, and rightly so. Customers have no obligation to complain to the company, although it is actually within the company's best interests that the customer do so, so the company has a chance to resolve it.

Employees, on the other hand, have an obligation to first complain to the company before they complain to outsiders. Of course, this doesn't happen (especially over trivial complaints), but that is really how I feel business works in America.

So, to sum: if the employee took measures to file a complaint or grievance, or if it was documented that they mentioned the issue or problem, then I agree that it's the company's responsibility to address that issue rather than firing people left and right. But if the employee made no effort to speak about this problem to the company, and instead complains in a very public way, then I feel the company is well within its rights to fire the employee. The employee, in the second case, did not even give his company a chance to privately resolve the issue, which is how the system works.

Or at least, that's my opinion. Sorry if I wasn't very clear in my earlier post.
Complaining to the company first is all fine and good if you work for a generally moral company. If you work for a company where if you complain about anything seriously you get labeled as a problem employee who shouldn't have his/her contract renewed next time, and they wouldn't really try to solve the problem, then what's wrong with going public first. If you know the people you would complain to at the company are worthless and it will hurt your career, why bother.

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by asilenthope » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:11 pm

Yeah, eb0li, I guess American business sense generally doesn't work in Japan... I guess I should try and remember that... That would be a smart thing to do.

Oh well.

Let this be a lesson to me: American logic is useless in Japan... It's a lesson I should really know by now.
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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by Spastic_Tactician » Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:34 pm

It would be pretty nice if the world worked that way but, in reality, those people who feel it necessary to complain about their companies are overwhelmingly not big fans of their direct superiors. The same direct superiors to whom they would have to submit complaints.
If one were to own a company and find that employees were badmouthing it on the interwebs, the most prudent action would be to find out whether the employee was alone in it`s opinions. If so, a serious sit down with the lone whiner and possibly a firing and/or paddling would be warranted. If, however, there are several complainers, either in public or private, one would be well advised to look strongly at the management in the sector to which the complainers belong. Perhaps the firing and/or paddling would better be administered to said manager who is likely fucking up your company.
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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by asilenthope » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:46 pm

Spastic_Tactician, I agree that your way sounds best.
"C'est un autre Anglais insoufrable." - Some French guy in a convenience store, after an attempt at conversation by jon.

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by AmishChief » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:17 pm

Like Nigerian Nampa, I have mentioned the name of my old workplace before. Actually, it was his posts that inspired me to join...as I wanted to provide a glimpse of what was happening in Chubu versus Kansai. While I was still working there, one of my old coworkers discovered who I was on this site (along with some others.) He was an old trainer, although he was pretty sympathetic to the posts as he had started lurking on LJ during NOVA's death throes.

I don't mention nearly as much about work now because it's not as interesting, and quite frankly the job is a lot less stable. But at the same time I've gotten a lot of great advice from people who were willing to share a little information about their experiences. Given how much of a risk it is to come over here, I welcome a site like this being able to provide information.

And let's be honest. This site is a lot more civilized about its complaints than some other Japan/Eikaiwa-related forums out there...

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by Shawn » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:48 am

Re: the eikaiwa wiki

I've been away for the past few weeks, but I haven't forgotten about the wiki. I'm working on it... 8)

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by yoshifumi tanaka » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:48 pm

Shawn wrote:Re: the eikaiwa wiki

I've been away for the past few weeks, but I haven't forgotten about the wiki. I'm working on it... 8)

Thanks for the update.

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Re: Yes, Japanese companies do monitor

Unread post by Shawn » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:18 pm

About that wiki...

Sadly, I have have had zero success in trying to install the damn thing on LJ. :cry: I am about to give up on it. I'm not sure if it's me or a conflict between the software and server (PHP and mySQL). My efforts at installing an older version of the wiki software have also met with failure. :oops: Does anybody have any tips or words of encouragement before I throw in the towel?

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