Fired While out Sick!!! ACC English School

[GirlJapan]

I wanted to know if anyone has experienced working for a shady company like I am/ actually have (past tense)! And were fired for being out sick but they quickly tried to trump up other reasons to cover the arse?

As long as I have been teaching here... this never happened to me EVER! I am feeling pretty low and bent out about this...

[allblacks]

Sorry to hear that. I hope you can get some sort of payback.

[wilde_oscar]

As a warning to others, which company were you working for?

[parallel universe]

If that is truly the sole reason for being fired and you know it, I would call them on it by...

going to whoever is in charge-- even a Japanese staff-- and saying, "I don't accept being fired for being sick or for any reason. I am going to come in tomorrow and if I'm not on a normal schedule with no pay reductions, I'll take a seat in the lobby/ waiting area and as students come in I'll explain to them what has happened. Yes, I'm prepared to 'make a scene'... calmly."

"If you want to call the police, go ahead." (they may threaten to but they won't because the police would come and recognize it as an internal employer-employee matter and as long as no punches are thrown, they'll leave... pissed off at the school for bothering them). Worst case scenario, the police will ask you to leave. The school DOES NOT WANT the police inside their school for any reason, so their calling them is truly unlikely. They also don't want even ONE student seeing or hearing about your sit-in. Assuming you are a well-liked and respected teacher from the students' viewpoint, you hold the cards in this power play, not the school.

Stand your ground and make them deal with you on YOUR terms.

I would honestly do what I have advised you to do. Good luck.

[fine-print]

That sit-in sounds like a lot of fun. I would contact your local labor bureau as well. Make sure you prepare though with a clear list of dates, times and names. You should also have details of any and all correspondence that you had with your company during your illness. If they have fabricated other reasons for your dismissal, be prepared with counter arguements and quotes. e.g. If they say you had a certain student complaint, try to recall times when staff praised your skill/ ability etc. and detail that exchange.

Also, from a company perspective, whatever their reasons for dismissing you, they need to be able to show that they brought said issues to your attention repeatedly and in writing, and that they provided additional training, direction etc to counter the issues. There also needs to be a level of grace for you to accept the issues, try to alter your behaviour and show improvement. It sounds like none of this has occurred, so you may have a good case to take to the labor bureau if you choose. I hope the union works out for you too.

[GirlJapan]

If that is truly the sole reason for being fired and you know it, I would call them on it by...

going to whoever is in charge-- even a Japanese staff-- and saying, "I don't accept being fired for being sick or for any reason. I am going to come in tomorrow and if I'm not on a normal schedule with no pay reductions, I'll take a seat in the lobby/ waiting area and as students come in I'll explain to them what has happened. Yes, I'm prepared to 'make a scene'... calmly."

"If you want to call the police, go ahead." (they may threaten to but they won't because the police would come and recognize it as an internal employer-employee matter and as long as no punches are thrown, they'll leave... pissed off at the school for bothering them). Worst case scenario, the police will ask you to leave. The school DOES NOT WANT the police inside their school for any reason, so their calling them is truly unlikely. They also don't want even ONE student seeing or hearing about your sit-in. Assuming you are a well-liked and respected teacher from the students' viewpoint, you hold the cards in this power play, not the school.

Stand your ground and make them deal with you on YOUR terms.

I would honestly do what I have advised you to do. Good luck.

I did do that but she sort of dismissed me! As far as I know the classes were wonderful, the students were great and I am really sad! A few of my private students would bring me gifts every week and I felt they really appreciated my teaching and perhaps wanted to befriend me. Sadly I did not get their numbers or information to at least keep in touch with them. She blaming me because one of their students has decided to quit coming to class and accused me of ill-behavior, which they claim is the reason why the student (parent) decided to quit coming to class. I believe this is a much undeserved claim because Honko did not practice objectivity in this situation. The student and parent in question claimed that the lessons I was teaching were no longer appropriate for the student. I suggested that they transfer the student to a different class because it was after all a group class and the student in question might be more willing to participate if he attended advanced classes. However, this was misconstrued by the Head of the School by insinuating that I drove the student away from class. This is truly not the case, but the head teacher said the VP decided to fire me after the student quit but waited nearly a week to tell me (even though they apparently decided that day), but they did it while I was out with a fever/cold and felt horrible.

When I told them I needed one more day to recover (which all seemed okay)I still had a fever they waited a few hours then frantically called me back and said we don’t need you anymore. That was it. I was coming to work early 30-40 by their request but complained about it and one manager said just before class was okay just prep at home, so I did that for three days and even the head teacher told me the same to not worry about it and just work from what the manager says at each school, which I did but the same head teacher said they were firing me because I would only come 15 min or 20 ahead of class and that was not enough.

I am definitely going to blow the whistle because by warning others about their illegal tactics at least new teachers and make a better informed decision and they can know what possibly they are getting into.

I asked kindly if they could pay or meet me half way with my pension/ unemployment insurance, health but he said flat out NO- we don’t cover stuff like that.

I would not be so upset but I took this job to replace another (because I moved). I need the 30 days allowance, this will at least give me the buffer I need to find another job but I’m still in limbo. We are to send in our schedule to be paid for the previous month and I did via e-mail which is how we communicated with the VP- but he has refused to answer my calls/ e-mail at least stating that he got my schedule, I guess he figures we fired her, why bother.

[GirlJapan]

Re: Fired While out Sick!!!

Postby allblacks on Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:03 pm
Sorry to hear that. I hope you can get some sort of payback.

I sure hope so! At least the 30-40 min requirement to come to class early and the 30 days dismissal allowance. Had I have known all of these before taking the job- it was after the fact that I found out I don't get paid for the scheduled hours, etc etc had I known all of this I would have not taken the job. It seemed like the moment I asked these questions they were looking for a way to fire me. I think I really went out of my way, the day I had a car accident their only concern was how soon can I get to work. = (

[Tall Tall Tree]

Name the school, please.

[Mogura]

Did they fire you verbally, or did they produce some sort of documentation stating that you were being terminated?

Which school was it, by the way?

[allblacks]

Perhaps you shouldnt say which school it was at this point. in case they drum up some bs slander thing. Wait til you beat them then tell us. You will.

[Mogura]

If they are refusing to correspond with you then you need to get your local Labor Standards Office involved so they can intervene on your behalf.

it is illegal to fire an employee for being out sick. Do you have a Doctor's certificate (shindansho) to certify your illness?

[GirlJapan]

Did they fire you verbally, or did they produce some sort of documentation stating that you were being terminated?

Which school was it, by the way?

Did they fire you verbally, or did they produce some sort of documentation stating that you were being terminated?

Which school was it, by the way?

The owner had the head teacher call me and simply say we don't need you anymore, then I argued you can't just fire me for being sick. She said oh they actually decided some time last week when one of the students quit and I did not follow the rule come to school early 30-40 min before class, but they waited a week to tell me that when just the day before the head teacher told me I didn't have to come to work that early but just leave it up to each school manager, and she and I and the manager went over the lecture for that day- so I was only following their rules. But In all honesty it was because I was out sick. So it just does not make sense. 30-40 Minute rule can possible apply to the FT staff but I was PT working 6 hours a day five days a week.

I felt like they were grasping for anything they could find because firing someone for being sick would be just too awful. Either way, she called back and said we can do you a favor and give you one days notice... UGH

[Mogura]

How long did you work there up until the point when you were fired? Were you enrolled in Shakai Hoken?

I cannot stress this enough, but you need to get a written letter from them notifying you that you have been terminated ASAP. You should call them up, being as polite and professional as you can, and request one.

[GirlJapan]

If they are refusing to correspond with you then you need to get your local Labor Standards Office involved so they can intervene on your behalf.

it is illegal to fire an employee for being out sick. Do you have a Doctor's certificate (shindansho) to certify your illness?

Yes, they are refusing or have ignored me phone calls/e-mail. The Union is sending them correspondence this week to see their reply and I am hoping to either get my job back, get my 30 days allowance for dismissal (this really put me in a bind).

I think they knew I was trouble when I asked if they could meet me half way with the unemployment/health/pension insurance. Usually it would not be a problem but if you make over a certain amount, I am no longer covered under my husband. I only made 180000 yen a month but once pension etc gets deducted or what I have to pay there would be nothing left over. I worked about 27 hrs a week.

[GirlJapan]

How long did you work there up until the point when you were fired? Were you enrolled in Shakai Hoken?

I cannot stress this enough, but you need to get a written letter from them notifying you that you have been terminated ASAP. You should call them up, being as polite and professional as you can, and request one.

Great Idea! What if they hang up on me or refuse to take my calls? Should I leave a message with the secretary or manager of the school? Regarding Shakai Hoken, I asked if they could help pay at least half he said NO we don't pay those things for foreigners. I moved in April, so I was looking for a new job and started in May about two months.

[GirlJapan]

Please understand that I absolutely want to name the school, not our of revenge but so others can avoid them as much as possible, I wanted to get advice on: should I mention them/slam them for what they did.

I think being that its True it would not be slander but I am just afraid they won't pay my June's payment which I should get in a few days, but I PROMISE to list them as I don't want others to experience what I have and when I made the complaint with the Union, I found out that others have complained against them too and to the labor board.

Please just bare with me while I gain some advise or what to do now.

[Mogura]

How long did you work there up until the point when you were fired? Were you enrolled in Shakai Hoken?

I cannot stress this enough, but you need to get a written letter from them notifying you that you have been terminated ASAP. You should call them up, being as polite and professional as you can, and request one.

Great Idea! What if they hang up on me or refuse to take my calls? Should I leave a message with the secretary or manager of the school? Regarding Shakai Hoken, I asked if they could help pay at least half he said NO we don't pay those things for foreigners. I moved in April, so I was looking for a new job and started in May about two months.

Well, you make a note of the date and time you called, and with whom you spoke with, and you get your local Labor Standards Office involved. No leaving messages. You need to get a committment from someone that they will issue you the letter.

So, judging by your response you were never enrolled in Shakai Hoken. Do you have a written contract? Does it state your working hours? If you were working 40 hrs/wk then they should have enrolled you in Shakai Hoken. This is the law--no exceptions. Shitsugyo hoken (unemployment insurance) is part of Shakai Hoken, and had you been properly enrolled you would have been eligible to collect unemployment insurance benefits.

You have a lot of legwork to do, and you need to prioritize. Focus on getting that letter (signed and dated) first.

One thing to keep in mind is that Japanese are very wary of confrontation, so if you say something like, "Look, if you're not going to take my calls then I will come to your office so we can straighten things out..." you will probably get their attention (and what you want).

[GirlJapan]

I called the head office and left a message with another teacher unfortunately, both were teaching (the manager) and the owner just happen to leave again. I did say, I need it in writing that I was fired or I am coming to work, I need to know from the owner not just a relayed message from the head teacher, and need the date they fired me. If by e-mail from the schools handler would be okay.

I sent the same message in writing to the head teacher via e-mail because I would call her and the line would just turn busy and would disconnect. I appreciate this advise, really I do!!!

I did this as politely as professional as possible.

[Mogura]

The subject of being fired has been brought up so many times on this forum that I have long been giving consideration to doing a writeup on it.

I suppose GirlJapan's post has motivated me enough to get up off my ass and begin working on it. It is a work in progress, so please be kind to my mistakes and state of uncompletedness: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=255984

[Mogura]

I called the head office and left a message with another teacher unfortunately, both were teaching (the manager) and the owner just happen to leave again. I did say, I need it in writing that I was fired or I am coming to work, I need to know from the owner not just a relayed message from the head teacher, and need the date they fired me. If by e-mail from the schools handler would be okay.

I sent the same message in writing to the head teacher via e-mail because I would call her and the line would just turn busy and would disconnect. I appreciate this advise, really I do!!!

I did this as politely as professional as possible.

You should send an email message to the owner requesting the letter. Only the owner can authorize (sign/seal) the letter. And ultimately the owner will be held accountable for unlawful work practices.

Don't let them email your termination letter, either. It really needs to be a physical document.

[Mogura]

Study the contents of this link: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=255650

Is it conceivable that you became sick through work (e.g., contact with a sick student that sneezed on you)?

[GirlJapan]

Study the contents of this link: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=255650

Is it conceivable that you became sick through work (e.g., contact with a sick student that sneezed on you)?

ahah That is exactly what happened, I muttered why in the heck did the mum send her to school sick... eh? She was coughing and hacking and tried to avoid her but she thought it was cute and sneezed in my face. I was teaching adults for a long time and sort of expected if I taught kids again I may get a cold and have to build up the immune again.. hehe

[Mogura]

Study the contents of this link: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=255650

Is it conceivable that you became sick through work (e.g., contact with a sick student that sneezed on you)?

ahah That is exactly what happened, I muttered why in the heck did the mum send her to school sick... eh? She was coughing and hacking and tried to avoid her but she thought it was cute and sneezed in my face. I was teaching adults for a long time and sort of expected if I taught kids again I may get a cold and have to build up the immune again.. hehe

Did you go to the clinic/hospital for treatment?

[GirlJapan]

No, my fever would break in the Am but then be back up by mid morning, that went on for about four days, the fifth day (so I had two days off) then it was the weekend, but come Monday still felt bad but contacted them on Sat to let them know just in case for Monday. Tuesday my ears finally unclogged, you know how you get the tickle when you healing and you keep coughing. I'm finally feeling better, but my poor husband got it was out sick for two days but he is going through the motions now.

Last time I had this was over five years or four years ago, kicked my butt the same. I'm so glad it's the weekend but I'm not going anywhere I figure it can't hurt to take it easy this weekend, at least now I have the fun of catching up on laundry = (

[Mogura]

No, my fever would break in the Am but then be back up by mid morning, that went on for about four days, the fifth day (so I had two days off) then it was the weekend, but come Monday still felt bad but contacted them on Sat to let them know just in case for Monday. Tuesday my ears finally unclogged, you know how you get the tickle when you healing and you keep coughing. I'm finally feeling better, but my poor husband got it was out sick for two days but he is going through the motions now.

Last time I had this was over five years or four years ago, kicked my butt the same. I'm so glad it's the weekend but I'm not going anywhere I figure it can't hurt to take it easy this weekend, at least now I have the fun of catching up on laundry = (

Ahh... Had you gone to the hospital and had it documented by the doctor that you had become sick in the line of work (with the doctor requesting time off on your behalf) then it would have been impossible for your company to fire you... or if they had they would have got into some deep shit over it...

[Ziggy]

How long have you worked there for? Has this happened to somebody there before? Does your eikaiwa give you any form of medical insurance? Where do you live? If you live in the Kansai are you may want to contact the general union. They will rattle a few cages for you

[Level3]

Reading through the posts, I'm afraid I can see the employer's side of things. Not that it's legal or moral.

In Japan, if you call in sick to work for several days, without seeing a doctor and getting a note,
you are thought of as either a liar, lazy, crazy, a hypochondriac, or worse. This perception is probably worse for females.
If you have been with the company/school for only a few months, you don't have enough trust built up
with the managers to believe you when you say you're sick.

A rational gaijin in Japan should know this, and should go to the hospital to get a doctor's "proof".
It's not right, it sucks to be treated like a friggin 12-year-old, but that's the way it is.
Hopefully, when you get sick at your next job, you'll go to the doctor, and probably keep your job.

The school runs on a single product, providing a giajin teacher at a certain time every week.
If you don't come to work, the school has to usually call up every single student and cancel the
lessons [because they are mismanaged and never consider the possibilty that you need a system to handle
the case of a sick employee, like ANY OTHER competent business, but that's another issue]

If you're calling in sick several days, they are probably assuming you're going to do it again.
It's better to just hire another random warm body who has a lower probability of getting sick.

Still, this is a business where the most important thing is just that you show up for work.
It's not like a restaurant, where they can call in someone else to wash the dishes in your place,
or make the other 4 waitresses run more tables each. It can't be done in a school.
This is why REAL schools have substitute teachers on call. But eikaiwa is not REAL school.

Sadly more than a few gaijin in Japan tend to get homesick, depressed, and such, and the first thing
they do is claim they have the flu, and not show up to work for a few days, yet don't go to a hospital to
get their sickness ceritified.

They may come back to work for a while, but many just run away back home, and then the school is left hangling with no teacher for possibly months.

An employee who gets sick often in a job that requires you to show up is a "problem employee".
Especially if the symptoms sound a lot like a the self-diagnosis of a child who doesn't want to go to school.

If you were my employee, I would have fired you too.

Welcome to Japan and your hard lesson in part of its culture. This is why you came here, right?

I might add that a lot of us gaijin are HAPPY to report to work sick, so we can give our germs right back to the damn students who infected us.
I just went to work sick because to me, it wasn't worth the lost money to stay home just for a light fever.
I'm going to have a shitty day either way, might as well make some money that I can use on a day when I feel good.
Shit, I've been teaching lessons 2 hours after being put to sleep for a certain uncomfortable invasive procedure at lunchtime
[yeah, taking the easy way out makes me a pussy, but I did go right back to work afterward, so it cancels out]
I think I may have nodded off during half those lessons, and I don't really remember what language, if any, I spoke during those classes,
but the evening just flew by, FLEW and I didn't get docked for a sick day!

Suck it up, keep your job. The Japanese seem to have no respect for people who call in sick, BUT the reverse is also true,
if you tough it out, you get lots of respect and thanks, and brownie points to use when if you get seriously ill.

[Raelene]

I was back on the job exactly one week after having my appendix removed. My boss was frantic and insisted on it. I felt like shit, but I went into work anyway. Now, my boss thinks I'm a goddess and will do anything for me. And in return, I never get sick (or if I do, which is rare, I show up anyway).

[uperjer]

i went to work with bronchitis. my manager actually took me to the hospital. when the doctor told me i couldn't work (or risk getting sicker) my head office was more than accommodating, kind, and called me periodically during the week to ask if i was okay. and to tell me that it was okay to stay out longer if i needed to. my company has been very good to me.

[GirlJapan]

It was illegal and immoral! I could not even walk- it was not just a cold and I was never out sick ever - so I very much disagree, I usually suck it up and usually go to work but I had a pretty high fever and there was no way I would put myself at more risk, they did not even ask for a doctors note, I was not even given the opportunity.

But we each know our limits, the last time I was sick was over five years ago (with a fever) I have had colds it was unlucky or perhaps lucky because at least found out what type of company I would have been working for, but like you said even though this was an English Conversational School I don't think we have to grind ourselves to the point we put ourselves at risk, why would anyone lie about being sick? At least its not something I practice. I did it once , went to work sick .. this was six years ago, from that I lost some of my hearing and swore I would NEVER do it again.

Regardless though their tactics were illegal and it was unfair, if had they have given me notice that would have been okay but they didn't.