The End of G.com Thread

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Re: The End of G.com Thread

Unread post by jon » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:15 am

Stick-Swinging Incident wrote:I can relate to that. I mean when people take the same lesson on 4 mark off sheets full, and then are STILL surprised when the vocab is explained to them, I think a tad bit of homestudy is needed. Sure, maybe 8 or so times nobody bothered to explain the key vocabulary, it happens... 8 times... but the OTHER 4 times???

This wasn't a single Level 2 or 3 mind you, but the vast majority. There were SOME that took notes, got the idea, tried to apply it and took the info on board. And generally people didn't mind teaching them the same lesson 3 or 4 times, as they seemed to improve. Those students were the exceptions, not the rule.

But the hung over salarymen golfers that always book lessons on Sat Sun first 3 or 4 lessons that never bring text books and basically use the time to get away from the family who was making entirely too much noise for their splitting heads??? Meh.

The bored housewives or grandmothers who just came to Nova on a daily basis 3 or 4 lessons and then zipped home just after 4...
They had the same teachers, same lessons, and picked up little or none of it. It was just the routine... a very expensive one. :shock:
To get a word or phrase into short term memory, then to long term memory and then to the point where you are going to be able to retrieve it when needed for your own production requires you to get varied and contextualised exposure to that word or phrase - exposure with which you actually engage and comprehend at least 80 times. Just sitting at home looking at your book only gets you so far.

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Re: The End of G.com Thread

Unread post by Stick-Swinging Incident » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:31 am

I'll take your word on the amount of times required to fully intigrate a specific word or phrase into your lexicon. Not my balliwick.

But, perhaps opening the textbook at home might hurry it a long... just a little.

Its not so much that a lot of the zone G's didn't remember the exact meaning, its that they didn't remember EVER seeing those specific words or having the vocabulary explained to them. (even when they had written Kanji next to the words ... or that they had 10 dates up on the title bar of the lesson indicating clearly to them that its been seen before.)

There should be, after say 10 times of seeing a word or phrase, that small tingling in the mind that says... "Yeah, I've seen it before but... just can't pull the rabbit out of the hat and guess its meaning."
It happens with Kanji when we study. We at least RECOGNISE that its something we have seen before.
But this isn't really about the End of GCom. Students like this are what would keep Gcom afloat.
[i][size=150][color=#4040FF] §[/color][/size][/i]

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Same Lessons Over and Over

Unread post by thedeli » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:45 am

Ever use the Workbook? Most of the students haven't. When you ask them "Where is your workbook?" the response is usually "Somewhere at home" "At the bottom of the drawer" etc. At least it gives you one more resource to work with. Also it comes in handy when they start bitching about not levelling up. :wink:

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Re: The End of G.com Thread

Unread post by jon » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:39 am

Sounds like a strike to me. It wasn't that bad when I was at Nova. However, the upper level Diplomat series had only just been introduced when I left. I have one private student who is level 3 and coming to me as well as using up her GComm points at Nova. Her attitude to the text is one of complete uninterest. Perhaps that is typical: I wouldn't know. She likes and actively seeks teachers who just talk to her and thinks she can get more value from listening than doing a lot of exercises and applications with more 'serious' teachers. I think she is probably right about this. I had one trainer who insisted vigourously that a good lesson should be at least 60 percent applications: a very inefficient way to learn as far as I'm concerned.

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Re: The End of G.com Thread

Unread post by indoctrin8 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:16 pm

jon wrote:
To get a word or phrase into short term memory, then to long term memory and then to the point where you are going to be able to retrieve it when needed for your own production requires you to get varied and contextualised exposure to that word or phrase - exposure with which you actually engage and comprehend at least 80 times. Just sitting at home looking at your book only gets you so far.
id love to know where you got that little statistic.

so that means i would have to hear "inu" at least 80 times before i could associate it with "dog"?

i hope youre not being guilty of my pet hate of pulling spurious statistics straight out of your arse.

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Re: The End of G.com Thread

Unread post by jon » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:51 pm

indoctrin8 wrote:
jon wrote:
To get a word or phrase into short term memory, then to long term memory and then to the point where you are going to be able to retrieve it when needed for your own production requires you to get varied and contextualised exposure to that word or phrase - exposure with which you actually engage and comprehend at least 80 times. Just sitting at home looking at your book only gets you so far.
id love to know where you got that little statistic.

so that means i would have to hear "inu" at least 80 times before i could associate it with "dog"?

i hope youre not being guilty of my pet hate of pulling spurious statistics straight out of your arse.
I didn't say that one would have to hear 'inu' at least 80 times before associating it with the word 'dog'. I said that one should be exposed to any word or phrase (the figure is an average) in varied and comprehensible contexts at least that number of times before being reliably expected to be able to produce the same word or phrase just when needed.

I don't know, honestly about the statistics, but it's the figure recommended by the people who write the books on language teaching that I personally employ in my work. That is to say I work on the basis of gaining maximum varied and comprehensible repetitions of new items in my classes and recycle constantly. My vocabluarly target for a year is around 600 items only. However, students learn them deeply and don't forget them.

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Re: The End of G.com Thread

Unread post by indoctrin8 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:28 pm

jon. yes you did. you said i would have to be contextually exposed to a "WORD or phrase" at least 80 times before i could produce it.

if you are not sure of where your statistics come from, then dont use them.

or can you give me the authors of the books you cite. id love to know more.


EDIT. and of course, the titles of the books would be useful.

indoctrin8

Re: The End of G.com Thread

Unread post by indoctrin8 » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:25 am

aah! langslave, youre doing it as well!
"in the vicinity of 80 percent".
did you take a calculator into lessons?

please, everyone, dont get into the
ludicrous habit of applying ratios and
percentages to things.

99.327 percent of my students do it
and its REALLY annoying.

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Re: The End of G.com Thread

Unread post by jon » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:56 am

indoctrin8 wrote:jon. yes you did. you said i would have to be contextually exposed to a "WORD or phrase" at least 80 times before i could produce it.

if you are not sure of where your statistics come from, then dont use them.

or can you give me the authors of the books you cite. id love to know more.


EDIT. and of course, the titles of the books would be useful.

Well, firstly 'hear' is not the same as 'exposed' and 'associate' is not the same as 'produce'. So you can see why I felt that your rendition of what I said was contrary to my intention. However, I can see why you misunderstood me as regards what I meant by 'produce'.

Two items I can recommend are: Fluency Through TPRS Storytelling: Blaine Ray and Contee Steele, and his DVDs exemplifying the method. You can find out about these and many other items at Blaine Ray's website at www.blaineraytprs.com However, much of the material relates to the teaching of Spanish in the Junior High and High School situation. Over the last two years I have been adapting the approach to the EFL situation on the basis of once a week lessons.

Problems in Nova lessons would be:

insufficient repetition, with over reliance on student repetition
insufficient contextualisation (not enough put into building up contexts in which the word can be fully understood)
insufficient variety of context (embedding items in varied discourse patterns)
insufficient concept checking (this should be continuous)
too many words introduced at one time (in a 40 minute session 3 items would be a good limit)
recycling is random and not timed (teachers don't like to teach the same student the same lesson twice. Actually, this would be a good idea).

indoctrin8

Re: The End of G.com Thread

Unread post by indoctrin8 » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:33 pm

whoa there, jon.

bit of splitting hairs there.
whatever words you wish to use,
you said i would have to be told
that "inu" means "dog" at least 80
times before i could point to a
dog and say "inu".

you were talking bollocks, and
your attempts to worm out of
it just makes you appear more
foolish.

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Re: The End of G.com Thread

Unread post by jon » Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:23 am

indoctrin8 wrote:whoa there, jon.

bit of splitting hairs there.
whatever words you wish to use,
you said i would have to be told
that "inu" means "dog" at least 80
times before i could point to a
dog and say "inu".

you were talking bollocks, and
your attempts to worm out of
it just makes you appear more
foolish.
That is not what I told you. Most definitely not. You can read it that way if you like, but it is not what I meant. Personally, I aim for 70 to 100 varied and contextualised repetitions of each new item I introduce in a single session and I believe that is what students need. If you don't agree, no problem.

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*how* much repetition?

Unread post by In The Know » Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:17 am

jon wrote:... Personally, I aim for 70 to 100 varied and contextualised repetitions of each new item I introduce in a single session and I believe that is what students need. If you don't agree, no problem.
I wasn't going to inject myself into this mini-flame war until I read this. I've self-studied myself to a decent and passable intermediate level of fluency. It took me about 5 times / 5 exposures to 'nai' and 'arimasen' before it clicked forever that it meant the 'negative' or 'doesn't have'. Even more complex, again, it took about 5 times to realize that I can use any verb to communicate that I can't do something: "kanji o yomu koto ga dekinai' = I can't read kanji.

I certainly would have lost motivation to study Japanese if it took me "70-100" repetitions to add new grammar, functional phrases and vocabulary. :chug:

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Re: *how* much repetition?

Unread post by jon » Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:08 am

In The Know wrote:
jon wrote:... Personally, I aim for 70 to 100 varied and contextualised repetitions of each new item I introduce in a single session and I believe that is what students need. If you don't agree, no problem.
I wasn't going to inject myself into this mini-flame war until I read this. I've self-studied myself to a decent and passable intermediate level of fluency. It took me about 5 times / 5 exposures to 'nai' and 'arimasen' before it clicked forever that it meant the 'negative' or 'doesn't have'. Even more complex, again, it took about 5 times to realize that I can use any verb to communicate that I can't do something: "kanji o yomu koto ga dekinai' = I can't read kanji.

I certainly would have lost motivation to study Japanese if it took me "70-100" repetitions to add new grammar, functional phrases and vocabulary. :chug:
OK. I'm not saying that every item in the language needs the same level of repetition, although I would say that knowing something in theory and doing it correctly every time because it 'sounds right' are not the same thing. I don't teach grammar and functional items the same way that I teach vocabulary and phrases, although in point of fact, in the course of learning, these items are repeated thousands of times. Obviously cognates like 'hamburger' don't need the level of introduction that I'm talking about, although in case of the word 'dog', particularly when teaching children, I would repeat at the levels I am talking about just in case it is needed. You lose motivation if the repetetive process is not also varied, engaging and comprehensible, and that is where the challenge of teaching lies.

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Re: *how* much repetition?

Unread post by japansmith » Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:21 pm

jon wrote:
In The Know wrote:
jon wrote:... Personally, I aim for 70 to 100 varied and contextualised repetitions of each new item I introduce in a single session and I believe that is what students need. If you don't agree, no problem.
I wasn't goi...................Japanese if it took me "70-100" repetitions to add new grammar, functional phrases and vocabulary. :chug:
OK. I'm not saying that ever................... is needed. You lose motivation if the repetetive process is not also varied, engaging and comprehensible, and that is where the challenge of teaching lies.
I'm sorry, now I'm obliged to step in to this, I was just sitting by the sideline. It took me less than zero times to be able to use Japanese like a motherfucker. Yeah baby. Me's sooo cool, I started talking Japanese like a native just by landing in the country. But unfortunately, they broke the mould after I was born so my kind of ability is no longer available to you ordinary mortals. But in that as well as every other respect, I am special. Just no one seems to want to listen to me tell them how special I am. So that's why I frequent forums like this.
Basic fact is, at least concerning myself, I didn't even have to listen to the language to be able to speak it. I could go to Burkina Faso and speak Dioula like a native within minutes. In fact I can prove it.

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Re: *how* much repetition?

Unread post by parallel universe » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:53 pm

japansmith wrote:... It took me less than zero times to be able to use Japanese like a motherfucker. Yeah baby. Me's sooo cool, I started talking Japanese like a native just by landing in the country. ... I could go to Burkina Faso and speak Dioula like a native within minutes. In fact I can prove it.
Wow, that was some post! :hohum: The punctuation and spelling need some work, but otherwise...

I'm not sure Dioula is that well-known to make the effort to learn it. But have it!
Always seeking good craick.

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Re: *how* much repetition?

Unread post by InTheColdLightOfDay » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:00 pm

japansmith wrote: I'm sorry, now I'm obliged to step in to this, I was just sitting by the sideline. It took me less than zero times to be able to use Japanese like a motherfucker. Yeah baby. Me's sooo cool, I started talking Japanese like a native just by landing in the country. But unfortunately, they broke the mould after I was born so my kind of ability is no longer available to you ordinary mortals. But in that as well as every other respect, I am special. Just no one seems to want to listen to me tell them how special I am. So that's why I frequent forums like this.
Basic fact is, at least concerning myself, I didn't even have to listen to the language to be able to speak it. I could go to Burkina Faso and speak Dioula like a native within minutes. In fact I can prove it.
I used to work with a guy who was exactly like this.
Reckoned he spoke 5 languages and had just "picked up" Japanese as he went, including all the written forms.
Of course, when you actually asked him to read something in Japanese (even katakana) he couldn't.
But no matter how many times he fell flat on his face he was still absolutely convinced he could speak and read Japanese.
Absolutely infuriating.
Each monkeys has different face. It's very difficult to distinguish monkey's face, like we can't memorize foreigner's face.

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post-NOVA points

Unread post by sex_sensei » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:19 pm

It's been about a year now since G.Spot took over from NOVA. That's been sufficient time for most, if not all, students to use up their old NOVA lesson points. My question to 'agents in the field' (i.e., current G.Comm teachers) is this: are enough new students coming in and are old students buying new lesson packages to allow G.Comm a proper revenue stream to keep going? Everything I read here suggests that management is chaotic-- schools are short of teachers, they suddenly get shifted around and sent elsewhere, students complain about not being to book lessons, etc. Is there really an 'End of G.Comm' in sight?

On a related note, I still see ECC's advertising campaign posters featuring that funny man :roll: Beat Takeshi. Nothing like paying a few hundred million yen to a 65-year-old 'tarento' to accurately represent and entice your student base.
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Re: post-NOVA points

Unread post by steki47 » Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:37 pm

sex_sensei wrote:On a related note, I still see ECC's advertising campaign posters featuring that funny man :roll: Beat Takeshi. Nothing like paying a few hundred million yen to a 65-year-old 'tarento' to accurately represent and entice your student base.
A 'tarento' who doesn't really like being overseas to boot. He made a few negatives comments about Hollywood a few years back. He's entitled to his own opinion, of course. Just a bit strange to choose him to be on an ad for an English school. Oh wait, he is popular with the Japanese. Gotcha, never mind.

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Re: The End of G.com Thread

Unread post by japansmith » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:34 am

It's been a year or so since the old Nova went bankrupt, and although I've moved on, the exerience of bankruptcy will always be with me. It really helped draw the curtains back and let me see what a company really is. I work at a couple of new companies now, but I still always think about if and when my next company will go bust (there are too many of them going bust in Japan and elsewhere at the moment). All the imaginary power you give to people further up the ranks than you, it's all gone the minute the doors shut. It reminds me of taking ecstacy and then having a look at all the people I was being friendly with while high, after I've come down. It seems like a fake reality. And then extrapolate that to all companies, because really there are a lot of companies that are running on unsustainable principles (even if you don't take into account the environmental destruction that we're living off).
Just a few meanderings...

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Re: The End of G.com Thread

Unread post by Kuronama » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:58 am

Fake reality... you are spot on man! Japan, particularly Tokyo I find, is living in a total fake reality. Sure, this kinda superficiality exists everywhere, back home in Canada where Im from definately, but Jesus... I dont think Ive ever been anywhere where an employees behaviour and a normal citizens behaviour is in such contrast. The BS bowing and handing out of tissues or anything to reel in a customer at an izakaya or whatever for that matter. Then get on the train and not a single fuckin soul barely will give up their seat for someone in need (does happen on occasion, im trying to be objective here), let alone talk to ya. The complete employee personality then the non-work/antisocial/shy/fucked up personality comes out almost right after. People are polite - WHAT A FARCE!

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Re: The End of G.com Thread

Unread post by suria » Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:30 pm

On a related note, I still see ECC's advertising campaign posters featuring that funny man Beat Takeshi. Nothing like paying a few hundred million yen to a 65-year-old 'tarento' to accurately represent and entice your student base.
Since Takeshi Kitano is actually quite a prolific and successful director (he won a prize at the Venice Film Festival a few years ago), he could be considered to be more than just a 65-year-old "tarento". Whether he is a good spokesman for an English school is another issue.

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the 'Beat' generation here

Unread post by sex_sensei » Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:22 pm

suria wrote:[... Takeshi Kitano is actually quite a prolific and successful director (he won a prize at the Venice Film Festival a few years ago)...
Yes, he may be a good director with some fresh ideas, but he is best known here (and largely unknown outside Japan, despite that award) for being the baffoon on a number of idiotic evening variety and quiz shows. I know you didn't mean to put him in the league of Speilberg, Tarantino, Clint Eastwood, Spike Lee, Ang Lee (no relation :D ), Baz Luhrmann, Jane Campion, etc.

It's sad that ECC feels it's necessary to pay an old man like Beat mega-money to endorse a product he doesn't use himself. But, that's advertising in Japan. I still remember ads showing Sylvester Stallone hawking ham! Well, like they say, "It's good money if you can get it."

Fair notice: I'd whore myself out too for 20 million yen to hold up a product and grin. :oops:
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Re: the 'Beat' generation here

Unread post by thedeli » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:28 pm

sex_sensei wrote:
suria wrote:[... Takeshi Kitano is actually quite a prolific and successful director (he won a prize at the Venice Film Festival a few years ago)...
Yes, he may be a good director with some fresh ideas, but he is best known here (and largely unknown outside Japan, despite that award) for being the baffoon on a number of idiotic evening variety and quiz shows. I know you didn't mean to put him in the league of Speilberg, Tarantino, Clint Eastwood, Spike Lee, Ang Lee (no relation :D ), Baz Luhrmann, Jane Campion, etc.

It's sad that ECC feels it's necessary to pay an old man like Beat mega-money to endorse a product he doesn't use himself. But, that's advertising in Japan. I still remember ads showing Sylvester Stallone hawking ham! Well, like they say, "It's good money if you can get it."

Fair notice: I'd whore myself out too for 20 million yen to hold up a product and grin. :oops:
Even when Toza was in its death throes they still managed to get Mr Bean to do ads for them.
:x "Where's my money?"
:D "Ask Mr. Bean."

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Re: The End of G.com Thread

Unread post by Level3 » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:46 am

How much you wanna bet that both Kitano and Atkinson made sure to be PAID IN FULL before actually doing the ad work?

Oh and just a reminder, you can check out subway and eki advertising rates any time.

http://www.kotsu.city.osaka.jp/ct/other ... e-list.pdf

If I'm reading it right (you have to go back tot he website to see examples of each poster size and position)
a single 16-frame "jumbo" poster in a major eki in Osaka runs 640,000 yen

PER WEEK

That's right. If your eikaiwa has ONE of these, they think ONE jumbo poster
is worth more than what they could do with that money, such as:

1. pay for 10 full-time teachers so students could actually book more lessons

2. fund shakai hoken payments for about 120 teachers

3. Pay a mere 2 full time teachers whose job is to cover for teachers going on vacation,
so they can actually go on vacation without the guilt trips and blackout periods,
and fund their travel AND give a 50,000 yen per month raise to your "best" 50 teachers.

4. Hire ONE full time trainer who ACTUALLY HAS AN M.S. IN ESL EDUCATION to train your teachers better
and make your students see results, plus ONE full-time MBA who can tell you how to stop wasting money
on posters nobody notices AND have a kickass party each month, nomi-hodai at a good hotel for 150 teachers
and staff.

5. Just keep the money as profits so the company will be stable.

And that's just ONE jumbo poster in ONE city per month. Do that in each region and every damned eikaiwa problem gets solved.

Reliable sources tell me that some branches spend 100,000yen per new student contract on advertising.
Yet the most common contract is under 90,000 yen, and they don't see anything WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?!!?
"Facts all come with points of view. Facts don't do what I want them to." - Talking Heads

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Re: The End of G.com Thread

Unread post by In The Know » Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:36 am

Level3 wrote: That's right. If your eikaiwa has ONE of these, they think ONE jumbo poster
is worth more than what they could do with that money, such as:

1. pay for 10 full-time teachers so students could actually book more lessons...

some branches spend 100,000yen per new student contract on advertising.
Yet the most common contract is under 90,000 yen, and they don't see anything WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE!?
If your advertising rates are accurate, point 1 is glaring. :jaw:

I'm surprised no school has snagged that bimbo Paris Hilton to be their spokesperson. Granted, I would cringe if they did. Sometimes word-of-mouth advertising is the best. Happy customers tell other people where they go for (product).

I've always wondered why there wasn't a set schedule system. For example, when you sign up you choose a day and time(s) that you will have a guaranteed seat in a lesson. You could have the option to change it once every 3 months, for example. Granted, some people get surprised and have to work late or be out of town on business, thus missing a lesson, but most employees know when they will have time off. It would eliminate booking lessons one by one, which infuriates students when they CAN'T book, which is turn causes students not to re-sign AND they tell everyone what a fraud G.Comm (et al) is.

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Re: The End of G.com Thread

Unread post by thedeli » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:02 am

I've always wondered why there wasn't a set schedule system. For example, when you sign up you choose a day and time(s) that you will have a guaranteed seat in a lesson. You could have the option to change it once every 3 months, for example. Granted, some people get surprised and have to work late or be out of town on business, thus missing a lesson, but most employees know when they will have time off. It would eliminate booking lessons one by one, which infuriates students when they CAN'T book, which is turn causes students not to re-sign AND they tell everyone what a fraud G.Comm

Regular B's (the government sponsored students) had set schedules. It became problematic when the Regular B student was in a level in which there were few students. We leveled up a few regular B's (especially the ones who often no-showed) just so other students could book a lesson. I agree that your idea would offer a good service especially to the students who tend to book at the same time but the school would have to somehow guarantee full capacity. If a new level 6 chose 1:20 on Mondays, you would have to hope that the next level 6 student you sign up would be able to take the same lesson or you would end up with a lot of holes in the schedule. I could imagine staff telling teachers what level to put the new student into.

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Re: the 'Beat' generation here

Unread post by Ziggy » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:49 am

thedeli wrote:
Even when Toza was in its death throes they still managed to get Mr Bean to do ads for them.
:x "Where's my money?"
:D "Ask Mr. Bean."
True enough but mcnova pulled the plug on advertising a couple months before it went six feet under.
So little is our loss,
So little is thy gain!

-John Milton

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Re: The End of G.com Thread

Unread post by Level3 » Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:19 pm

thedeli wrote: school would have to somehow guarantee full capacity.
That's exactly why Nova raked in tons of dough to become the biggest chain, and also why they failed.

Basically Nova was doing the same thing as selling 200 1-week time share contracts for a ski resort condo even though
there are only 52 weeks in a year, and most people only want to book in the 12 weeks or so of the ski season.
And for a long time, they got away with it.

I assume doing that is illegal in most countries. But in eikaiwa-land it's perfectly legal, until enough people complain.
METI could have just made a regulation calling on schools to guarantee they have the capacity to handle x% of their students'
free lesson scheduling requests. But that would be easy to fudge the numbers on.

"Free schedule system" should be the #1 warning sign to NOT join a school, especially one that DOES guarantee a class size limit of
only 4 or 5 students. It's insane.
Schools can sign up as many students as they can with no concern about fitting them into the schedule.

A fixed schdeule system is a handicap to legitimate eikaiwas, which have to turn away students who can't fit into the lesson schdeule.
[Although there are plenty of tricks to squeeze them in somehow by level ups and such.]

Fixed schedules also give a reluctant student who is weak against sales talks an "out", by lying about their own schdeule
not matching the school lesson schedule. Nova's masterful scheme doesn't give anyone that excuse. "You can book a lesson ANYTIME!"
and thus might yield more money from weak-willed people. It also gives people fewer options when trying to quit a contract.
They can't use the "I'm busy at work and can't schdeule lessons" excuse as easily. "You can book lessons ANYTIME!" is the counter.
[Though the easy counter-counter is "No. I can't book a lesson any time. I tried. Give me my money back you lying fuck."]

One can understand why G.Con would want to continue such a system, but doesn't explain why METI would let them, or any eikaiwa, do it,
except just ignorance [or bribes].
"Facts all come with points of view. Facts don't do what I want them to." - Talking Heads

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In The Know
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speaking of NOVA and pyramid schemes...

Unread post by In The Know » Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:05 pm

Level3 wrote:...One can understand why G.Con would want to continue such a system, but doesn't explain why METI would let them, or any eikaiwa, do it,
except just ignorance [or bribes].
"ignorance, bribes, lack of early METI intervension", I first thought of NOVA when I saw this headline from today's on-line Asahi shinbun. Wait until you get to the good part where the politician in question (with a straight face, of course) called this income 'lecture fees'. What a stinkin' crock o' :poo:

http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asa ... 40154.html

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parallel universe
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Berlitz strike

Unread post by parallel universe » Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:53 pm

My hat is off to the Berlitz strikers (Tokyo only, apparently) trying to affect a change. This thread caught my eye and I wondered if a similar move for 'The End of G.Comm" disgruntled teachers is at hand.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=256340
Always seeking good craick.

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