Unemployment insurance

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allblacks

Unemployment insurance

Unread post by allblacks » Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:57 am

With Nova about to sink into the depths and other schools closing down, I thought I would bring this up to give people some security when everything is bleak.

If you work for Nova fulltime, you are probably enrolled in unemployment insurance. You will have a little peice of paper all in Japanese that details your enrollment. This was probably given to you when you started. Ask the staff what it looks like. Theyll tell you. I would scan and post my old one if I has a scanner.

What does this do for you? It gives you 60% of your pay for 90 days. If you have been at Nova longer, you might get it for more time. 5 years and above gets you 120 days or something like that. I received 90 days of unemployement insurance when my company went bankrupt in 1999. Saved my arse. Paid the rent etc until I got a new job.

I invite questions about it. I also invite others who have received it to post their own experiences for others to read. This is a difficult time for many people. Boards like this support those who are worried about the goings on of NOBA.

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Re: Unemployment insurance

Unread post by sirwanksalot » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:27 am

allblacks wrote:I would scan and post my old one if I has a scanner.


ABs
You could take a picture of it if you have a digicam.

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Re: Unemployment insurance

Unread post by redpower » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:33 am

allblacks wrote:
If you work for Nova fulltime, you are probably enrolled in unemployment insurance.
I remember when I signed up for ECC that we were told that we would pay about a 1000 yen a month unemployment insurance. I distinctly remember being surprised that I had never paid this at NOVA....

Maybe NOVA finally joined the real world.
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Re: Unemployment insurance

Unread post by MacGyver » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:50 am

redpower wrote:Maybe NOVA finally joined the real world.
If I'm not mistaken, it was part of the health insurance/pension plan that the Nova Union fought for.
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Unread post by amerikajin274 » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:55 am

I may be wrong, but don't you have to be employed for more than six months in order to qualify for unemployment insurance?
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Unread post by MacGyver » Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:41 pm

amerikajin274 wrote:I may be wrong, but don't you have to be employed for more than six months in order to qualify for unemployment insurance?
No you're right. Here is a web site that gives how long you have to work for amount of days unemployment insurance you qualify for.
http://www.situgyou.com/st_situgyounissuu.htm
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Unread post by sos » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:41 pm

One thing...you don't the money right away.

When LinguaPhone closed its Hiroshima school on November 30th, I had to wait a few weeks for HQ to send me my rishokuhyo. I received those papers around December 10th and went to Hello Work the next day. I then had to wait 1 week for them (a "waiting period). By then, for me, it was near the New Year holidays. I had to go in on Jan 5th-ish for a seminar, which I couldn't make as I had a job interview in Tokyo. Went to the next one, a week later and then received 55% of my salary around January 20th. I asked my new job to start on Jan 10th so I can receive the money until Jan 9th. I only received 3 weeks worth of unemployment.
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Unread post by Keleidoscope » Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:38 pm

I don't have anything like this, are flexi-time people not enrolled in it?

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Unread post by SamhainP8 » Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:17 am

Can someone tell me what the name of the card/paper thing is that I need to get? I am sure that I turfed it ages ago and I got the run around today with the J-staff. I'll call Osaka and get it before the doors close.
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Unread post by amerikajin274 » Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:19 am

Keleidoscope wrote:I don't have anything like this, are flexi-time people not enrolled in it?
If you are employed for more than 30 hours a week, you should notice a small amount being taken out of your check each month for employment insurance. I don't know if it applies to anyone on a part-time contract - my guess is, probably not. You will also have to go by Nova's office and pick up the forms, which could be a bit of a chaotic process in the event of a financial collapse. Remember, you'd be standing in line with a lot of other unemployed teachers and I'm not sure that giving paperwork would be their first priority in that case, and that's assuming they'd even have the means to process it at all.
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Unread post by SamhainP8 » Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:01 pm

Ok I got this from a VERY reliable source (the little lady), although she wasn’t real sure on how to explain it all in English very well.

Be that as it may, anybody who is still working for Nova and has been working for Nova for more than 6 months should:

Check that you/they have your:
雇用保険被保険者証(こようほけんひほけんしゃしょう)

雇用保険被保険者資格喪失届 (こようほけんひほけんしゃしかくそうしつとどけ)

離職証明書(りしょくしょうめいしょ)which NOVA has to submit to ハローワーク

Apparently you have to write down your name on those papers before you leave NOVA. She thinks it's a bit different if they go bankrupt with no notice though.....?

For those that don’t already know ハローワーク is the place you have to go when NOVA goes bankrupt.

When you go to ハローワーク you have to bring:
雇用保険被保険者離職票(こようほけんひほけんしゃりしょくひょう)
and 雇用保険被保険者証(こようほけんひほけんしゃしょう)

If you quit NOVA, they should send you:
雇用保険被保険者離職票(こようほけんひほけんしゃりしょくひょう)
or you might have to go and get it.

The first thing you should do is to check that you have your:
雇用保険被保険者証(こようほけんひほけんしゃしょう) or not.

Confused? Yeah me too but I’ll get on the blower and annoy the piss out of the people at head office again today on my break and try to clear things up.

It would be appreciated if somebody who has been through this before could please correct any mistakes and/or omissions that have been made here for all of us poor dolts that are about to be "Hello Work" bound.
"Do you know how a falcon is trained, my dear? Her eyes are sewn shut. Blinded temporarily, she suffers the whims of her God patiently, until her will is submerged and she learns to serve - as your God taught and blinded you with crosses."

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Unread post by SamhainP8 » Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:26 pm

Thanks for all the help :wink:

I called up HQ today and it was surprisingly easy to organise for them to send me out another copy of my proof of unemployment insurance.

They told me that it should arrive at my branch by next week.

They did ask if I was “quitting or just concerned” though so I guess a bunch of people must have been enquiring as of late which is good.
"Do you know how a falcon is trained, my dear? Her eyes are sewn shut. Blinded temporarily, she suffers the whims of her God patiently, until her will is submerged and she learns to serve - as your God taught and blinded you with crosses."

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Unread post by Examination_Hell » Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:47 pm

SamhainP8 wrote:They told me that it should arrive at my branch by next week.
Just around pay-day which is nice and convenient.
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Unread post by amerikajin274 » Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:35 am

SamhainP8 wrote:Thanks for all the help :wink:

I called up HQ today and it was surprisingly easy to organise for them to send me out another copy of my proof of unemployment insurance.

They told me that it should arrive at my branch by next week.

They did ask if I was “quitting or just concerned” though so I guess a bunch of people must have been enquiring as of late which is good.
Just in case anyone does not know, unless it has changed, there is a big difference in terms of how UI works for people who quit and people who are involuntarily terminated.

If you get terminated through no fault of your own, you take your papers to Hello Work and you should receive your benefits within 10 business days, though it could take a couple of weeks in some cases. And as you mention, get your papers now in case the worst happens. If a company goes under, it could really make things complicated and you could really be delayed in getting your benefits.

Unless this has changed, remember this if you quit: you have to wait 3 months to receive benefits.

Don't quit and show up expecting to receive unemployment benefits. Won't happen - not for three months. Most people I know don't have that kind of stash laying around.
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Unread post by SamhainP8 » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:27 am

amerikajin274 wrote:Don't quit and show up expecting to receive unemployment benefits. Won't happen - not for three months. Most people I know don't have that kind of stash laying around.
Yeah this is what is going to make it tough if the 15th comes around and there is no money!

I guess everybody could just call in sick though until they pony up. :twisted:

If they fire you then that's another story.
"Do you know how a falcon is trained, my dear? Her eyes are sewn shut. Blinded temporarily, she suffers the whims of her God patiently, until her will is submerged and she learns to serve - as your God taught and blinded you with crosses."

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Unread post by Bakananova » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:30 pm

I know that several of you here have decided not to leave Nova, instead planning to ride out the storm. I have also read that a few people are even hoping that Nova does indeed go bankrupt, just so that they can collect unemployment benefits. I believe one person was even dreaming about having 240 days of partial salary as they had paid unemployment insurance for a number of years.

However, I would caution you to think twice about the matter.

When I first arrived in Japan, too many years ago than I care to remember, I worked for a rather large English conversation school here in Tokyo that was in deep financial trouble. It was going bankrupt. There was no doubt about it.

First our pay was one day late. The next month, two days late. The company's management seemed to really care and so as teachers we didn't mind all that much. Then our pay was four days late. The next month? Eight days. Then sixteen. Next, more than a month. Finally, two and then three months. This carried on more than a year. Still, our school paid much more than the other schools and so we stuck with them. We had pride in our school and believe in the teaching methodology. Our company made no attempt to lower our salaries, paid more than other schools when they were able to pay, and seemed honest at the time.

But very soon, some teachers who had done a lot of overtime and were owed close to a million yen or more. The Japanese government would reimbursed the lack of payment of wages, but they would only reimburse up to 70% of what was owed, if I remember correctly. There was also an upper limit of a million yen I believe, and so many teachers were not willing to continue working if they were most likely never to receive any payment at all for it, if the school went under. A line had to be drawn somewhere and that was it.

Finally, as teachers we organized a union and went on strike, as we couldn't wait for the Japanese courts. We tried to force them to close, shutting down all eight schools that the company had overnight. Guess what? It didn't work. They simply hired new teachers, fresh off the plane that were desperate for money, and offered cash on the day if they would cross the picket line and work. Some did. Enough of them to keep one of the schools open at least. Despite our picketing everyday and lots of bad press, they avoided bankruptcy.

Finally, unable to keep even their former headquarters open probably because of its size and cost of rent on the west side of Shinjuku station, they simply opened up a smaller school somewhere else. This went on for years! That is right. YEARS!! No money from the unemployment insurance. No payment of our salaries. We had to find other work just to survive. We needed money to live, our working visas were going to expire sooner or later, and we had to continue to picket on our days off.

Can you see the picture I am painting? As time wore on teachers were not being paid and the company just plain refused declare bankruptcy. This should be a real concern to all of you here. If the company does not go bankrupt, you cannot claim unemployment. In our case it was basically impossible to force them to pay us our salaries. Sure they were warned by the government to pay us, but as they didn't have any money it didn't do any good. A few foreign embassies even wrote letters on our behalf but it was of no help. Likewise, going to court was an option which we pursued, but in the end it took close to five years for the court to reach a decision while we were running seriously short of money.

Like many Nova teachers today, many of us back then were living in company housing. In our case, the building wasn't rented, our company owned it. However, as they were running out of money and banks refused to loan them any more money, our company turned to a money lending company instead. Of course, that just made things worse, as when they couldn't pay back their new loans at a higher interest rate, the money lending company decided to take our company's property instead.

Very soon, we had some very undesirable thugs take over our building. They moved into a small office on the first floor and they would watch everyone come and go. I wouldn't go so far as to call them Yakuza per se, but yes, they were hired muscle that were there to scare us out. We teachers of course did not want to move out of our company housing as at the very least, if we didn't get our salaries then we would still have a place to stay.

Then things got nasty. These thugs started demanding that we sign new leases and pay them directly, despite the fact that our rent was supposedly being taken out of our pay each month. Locks were suddenly changed by the thugs, the police were called, our company executives were there, irate teachers, along with a lot of tough Japanese thugs threatening to throw us out into the street. Lots of yelling and shouting. In my apartment we kept a baseball bat near the door just in case. It was not a nice situation at all.

I've seen a Japanese English conversation school try to avoid going bankrupt first hand before. It was hell. It was a long drawn out process in our case. Only many years later did any teachers, and only a few of them that stuck it out for years through many court hearings and after paying years of union fees, finally get some of their money from the company through the court system.

As for me? I was until very recently a Nova employee. I applied for my paid holidays immediately after our pay was 12 hours later than usual. I then handed in my resignation soon after that. I learned my lesson years ago and I vowed never to go through that again. This time I wanted to get out when I was still likely to get what I was owed.

I know that some companies go bankrupt overnight, but the fact is, others don't. In my experience, when a company goes bankrupt everyone involved suffers a financial loss. That is the moral of my little story and a lesson I learned the hard way. I am only offering it here in the hope that you don't have to go through what I went through.

If you are still working for Nova and planning to stay, for your own safety, I would strongly recommend that you have enough savings to last you several months at least, if not enough money to last half a year, in case Nova stops paying entirely but does not actually go bankrupt. I would also not count on getting any monetary help from the unemployment office at all just to be safe.

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Last edited by Bakananova on Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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what school?

Unread post by TheJesusMemo » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:17 am

Can you give us the name of that school BakaNova? I've been here a while and never heard of any such story. Unless I hear a name I tend skeptically think it could very well be fiction. I'm just checking.
Thanks.

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Re: what school?

Unread post by Bakananova » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:32 am

TheJesusMemo wrote:Can you give us the name of that school BakaNova? I've been here a while and never heard of any such story. Unless I hear a name I tend skeptically think it could very well be fiction. I'm just checking. Thanks.
Certainly.

The name of the school was ASA Community Salon. (Although the parent company was called ASA Sankyo and the teachers were technically employed by another company called ASA Staff Centre.) The teachers' dormitory was: Toshu Mansion, 1-29-12 Shinjuku, and it was located just north of Shinjuku Gyoen Station on the Marunouchi line.

ASA Community Salon had eight schools in the Tokyo area: Shinjuku, Ikebukuro, Shibuya, Yaesu, Yokohama, Akasaka, Ginza, and Kichijoji.

The schools were expensive to join and had a high class clientele. Students that I personally taught included actor Nakadai Tatsuya ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatsuya_Nakadai )'s wife and daughter. Actress Kawashima Naomi ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_Kawashima ) was one of my students as well.

ASA Community Salon claimed to hire only teachers from the best overseas universities. They were also racist as the hiring of a black teacher was out of the question. They wanted well-bred, white, attractive teachers with blond hair and blue eyes if possible. As for the dress code, suits and ties were mandatory as they wanted to project an elite image.

Students of ASA Community Salon were allowed to attend classes at any of the schools freely, and without charge, simply by calling ahead of time to make an appointment. There were four students per class. Unlike Nova, at ASA we had plush green sofa-like chairs around a small coffee table. The tables and chairs were spread out around a large room without any dividers.

In our case, the parent company had invested in real estate during the bubble economy, had lost a lot of money, and finally went bankrupt. We were told that the English school itself was still profitable and and therefore they were attempting to become independent of the parent company. I assume if our school had indeed been profitable as they had claimed, then those profits were used to pay the parent company's debts. No matter what the reason was, our pay had been late for more than a year, and teachers had not been paid the final three months when we went on strike. We were not going to wait any longer.

In our case, much like Nova's situation now, we were told that we would be saved by another company. There were rumors of a cult connection too. "Just wait a few more days and everything would be all right," they said. At one point the management even called a meeting, putting someone in front of us, claiming that he had bought the company and that everything would be fine. However, just a few weeks later it was obvious that it was still the same old people in charge, and that we had been once again misled.

The teachers went on strike several times. At first we went on strike just for an hour and then later for a day if I remember correctly. This was to get their attention and show them that we were serious. When ASA still failed to pay us, around the middle of September, 1993, we attempted to close all of the schools down for good, hoping to get at least some of our money if the school declared bankruptcy. We organized strikes with the Tokyo South District Branch of the National Union of General Workers (NUGW). If Hirohiko Takasu is still working there he would probably remember us.

I have uploaded the school's brochure and two articles from the September 17th and September 20th editions of the Japan Times here:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee28 ... nova/1.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee28 ... nova/2.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee28 ... nova/4.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee28 ... nova/3.jpg

I hope that you find the above sufficient to show that that I am indeed telling the truth.

Bakananova
Last edited by Bakananova on Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread post by Bakananova » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:18 am

PaisleyLove wrote:Are you saying that we shouldn't count on receiving unemployment benefits even if Nova does go belly up, like we'd get screwed out of what we are legally entitled to even if all the proper criteria for receiving the benefits are met?
Sorry if what I wrote was unclear.

No. If Nova does indeed go bankrupt and all the criteria for receiving unemployment benefits are met, then I believe that the Japanese government will properly distribute the benefits to those who qualify.

However, at the same time, I would not count on the unemployment benefits from the Japanese government being there when you need them. There is always the possibility that some small rule was overlooked or not mentioned here, and then you might suddenly find out that you do not qualify for unemployment benefits at all. Likewise, Nova may avoid going bankrupt by keeping a single school open and just refuse to pay you. Then it is possible that you could be in situation where you don't qualify for unemployment benefits but aren't getting a salary either, much like the situation I faced before.

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Unread post by Bakananova » Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:38 pm

PaisleyLove wrote:Are you saying that nova would leave a branch open to avoid us getting unemployment? How would that be to their benefit? Unless I'm mistaken, the the payment into our unemployment is deducted from our pay, and once they go down, our collection of unemployment wouldn't come out of Nova's pockets. Am I wrong?
I am saying that Nova, just like my previous company and any other for that matter, will most likely not go bankrupt willingly. They will probably fight it bitterly to the very end.

It is entirely possible, that like my previous school, Nova will try to scrape by with only a few schools, or even just one for that matter, hoping that the tide will turn and the public will forget, so they can start making money again.

If Nova really cared for its staff, don't you think they would have declared bankruptcy already? Then Japanese staff and teachers could be receiving unemployment benefits already, rather than repeatedly waiting for our delayed salaries. Nova hasn't shown much kindness towards its staff, foreign or Japanese, for years. This is a company that has just been shown that it has repeatedly lied to students over the years and that is why METI is punishing it. Why would you think that suddenly that Nova would be any different now?

Call it a matter of Sahashi's personal pride, plain old stubbornness, whatever, it doesn't matter. It would be naive to think that Nova will just go willingly go under for the benefit of others.
FalconDriver wrote:I thought about that before but then I learned that even if you haven't been sacked or laid off, if any company fails to pay you on time twice then you can get the benefits right away and walk right out of NOVA straight into unemployment benefits. You don't have to quit, get sacked or be let go to get the benefits. It's all about the pay being on time.
That is what I have heard as well, but I have only heard it online. You should verify that and get it in writing directly from Hello Work. In theory it sounds nice. In our case, it didn't happen as you can clearly see from the newspaper articles. Perhaps the law has changed since then. I have never seen it happen and so I would not count on it just to be safe.

If it is true, then surely there must be a least a few of the Japanese staff who have gotten fed up with the situation, were able to leave Nova, and got their unemployment benefits, would there not? Their pay has already been late twice in a row. Can anyone confirm that the Japanese staff were able to immediately collect their unemployment benefits as has been said to be possible?

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Re: what school?

Unread post by MacGyver » Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:08 pm

Bakananova wrote:ASA Community Salon had eight schools in the Tokyo area: Shinjuku, Ikebukuro, Shibuya, Yaesu, Yokohama, Akasaka, Ginza, and Kichijoji.
In 91/92, I roomed with a guy who worked for them at the Ginza branch I think (I could be wrong) and was probably there when they went bust but I'm sketchy on the details as I left Japan at the end of 92. I remember him saying they were a swanky place to work at and he got paid big bucks to do so. He had rich students, such as high class hostesses who were raking in 1 million a month, and mentioned something about teaching the odd celebrity, but once again I don't have any names cause my memory is sketchy on that.

Sorry I can't give anyone any more info than that cause I never worked for them and its such a long time ago my memory is sketchy. This post is really for the natsukashii value than anything else.
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Philsy

How about part-timers?

Unread post by Philsy » Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:42 am

does anyone have any idea if this includes part-timers?

i've almost hit 6 months and am unsure if covered.

i never recieved the 雇用保険被保険者証(こようほけんひほけんしゃしょう), but know that F-Ts do.

is it hours based or can i get one after 6 months.

Thanks in Advance!

Philsy

whos covered according to Nova documents

Unread post by Philsy » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:19 am

To answer my own question:
A type instructors are covered(check previous info for time of employment etc.)

B type - only those on specific visas

Working Holiday Visa is not covered(premiums are not paid i believe)

so if your on that type of visa, you may start to worry!

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Unread post by mandangaman » Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:30 pm

Information about collecting unemployment from my days at NCB (excerpt from a post). Maybe it's of help:

My wife was speaking to the unemployment office people
today. We
were shocked when they began talking about it possibly taking as long as five
weeks to
start receiving any unemployment benefit. I'm trying to get more information
about this
and I'll let you know anything I find out.

However long it takes, the forms and things will of course have to filled in
using Japanese.
I found a useful list on the internet of Hello Work offices that provide foreign
language
assistance. Here is the link to the site:

http://www.tfemploy.go.jp/en/coun/cont_2.html

The Osaka Information Service for Foreign Residents also provides help about
various
topics in English. They look pretty good, and they have an English webpage. Here
is the
link to it:

http://www.pref.osaka.jp/kokusai/OIS_we ... index.html

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Unread post by ripslyme » Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:56 am

FalconDriver wrote:Click here: http://www.tfemploy.go.jp/en/coun/cont_2.html

It's hilarious that the people who appear in the advertising banner at the top are the very same people who appear in the Diplomat texts at NOVA.

Priceless. :D
They must have bought the same CD of clip art.
all this negative energy just makes me [b]stronger[/b]

inflames
9 miles of bad road
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Unread post by inflames » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:39 pm

Does anyone know what effect, if any, a part time job will have on unemployment eligibility or amounts?

I know myself, along with many others, have or will soon be starting additional jobs; however, I'd (and presumably others) would like to know what effect these jobs have on unemployment.

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mr_grumpy
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is NOVA keeping up to date with payments

Unread post by mr_grumpy » Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:56 am

Is NOVA keeping up to date with payments for Unemployment insurance? If they can't pay rent, or anything else, I doubt they are paying unemployment. (Or the JMA premium to Interglobal. Advice? Don't get sick.)

How does that leave everyone?
Fukuoka General Union
http://fukuoka.generalunion.org/

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Gorgon1123
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Re: is NOVA keeping up to date with payments

Unread post by Gorgon1123 » Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:30 pm

mr_grumpy wrote:Is NOVA keeping up to date with payments for Unemployment insurance? If they can't pay rent, or anything else, I doubt they are paying unemployment. (Or the JMA premium to Interglobal. Advice? Don't get sick.)

How does that leave everyone?
that leaves me very, very scared.

allblacks

Unread post by allblacks » Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:39 pm

Nothing is stopping you going to a HELLO WORK where English is spoken and finding out whether it is being paid by your employer. I would go there with the slip itself and your foreigners card and one other form of id and ask them. If they give you any other answer than yes its up to date, tell hello work you want to file an official complaint against your employer. I would drop the word SAGI (fraud) there and then very loudly.


It is very possible to go and check whether you are enrolled. I did it once. They actually showed me the history of instructors at my old company. NONE of them were enrolled.

ABs

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scared&lazy
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Unread post by scared&lazy » Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:14 pm

I have a question about the UI: NONE of us are working more than 30 hours a week anymore thanks to Nova's little "free time between lessons" scam. An A40 contract comes out to a notional 29.5 hours per week to avoid the shakai-hoken issue, and they haven't hired on A40 for a few years to the best of my knowledge. Don't want to start a panic, but does this mean we're all screwed?

Thanks

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