The future of Japan

For topics not directly related to eikaiwa.

Moderator: Shawn

The future of Japan

Postby Ozintokyo » Sun Jun 06, 2004 11:52 pm

Interesting read I thought.


No sex please -- we're Japanese
By Paul Wiseman
USA TODAY

To an astonishing degree, the sexes are going their opposite ways in Japan. Young women are revolting against the traditional role of obedient housewife, opting instead to live at home and shop and socialize with girlfriends. Startled men are retreating into solitary ways. Check-ins at the country's famed 'love hotels' are even falling. As birthrates slip, a social crisis looms.
TOKYO -- Junko Sakai was nervously looking forward to a romantic getaway with the man she'd been seeing. But when they arrived at a seaside hotel last fall, her beau requested separate rooms.
Stunned, Sakai nonetheless anticipated a late-night knock on the door. It never came. ''Nothing happened,'' the Tokyo writer says.

Nothing is happening with depressing regularity between Japanese men and women these days. Marriages, births and hanky-panky are all spiraling downward with troubling implications for the nation's future: A sagging birthrate means that fewer working-age people will be around to support a growing population of elderly; a social crisis looms.

Only in Japan would a popular weekly newsmagazine deem it necessary to exhort the nation's youth to abstain from sexual abstinence: ''Young people, don't hate sex,'' AERA magazine pleaded last month in a report detailing a precarious drop in sales of condoms and in business at Japan's rent-by-the-hour ''love hotels.''

More and more Japanese men and women are finding relationships too messy, tiring and potentially humiliating to bother with anymore. ''They don't want a complicated life,'' says Sakai, who has written a controversial bestseller, Cry of the Losing Dogs, on the plight of unmarried Japanese thirtysomething women like herself.

And so, to an astonishing degree, men and women go their separate ways -- the women to designer boutiques and chic restaurants with their girlfriends or moms, the men to karaoke clubs with their colleagues from work or the solitude of their computer screens to romance hassle-free virtual women.

''Men don't want to spend time with their girlfriends, especially shopping,'' says Takayuki Mori, 40, a single man who works for a Tokyo advertising agency. He says he isn't dating.

Better educated, more widely traveled and raised in more affluence than their mothers, young women no longer feel bound by the Japanese tradition that says a woman unmarried after age 25 is like a Christmas cake on Dec. 26 -- stale. Men, meanwhile, seem intimidated and bewildered by assertive young women who are nothing like their moms.

As a result of the disconnect between genders, Japan, just emerging from a long economic slump, is experiencing a social recession in:

* Marriage. Japanese are postponing marriage or avoiding it altogether. Weddings dropped last year for the second straight year. Fifty-four percent of Japanese women in their late 20s are single, up from 30.6% in 1985. About half of single Japanese women ages 35 to 54 have no intention to marry, according to a survey in January by the Japan Institute of Life Insurance.

* Births. Just 1.1 million babies were born in Japan last year, the third straight decline. The average Japanese couple now produces just 1.32 children, well below the minimum 2.08 needed to compensate for deaths. As a result of plummeting birth rates, Japan's population is expected to peak in 2006, and then decline rapidly.

* Sex. In a 2001 survey, condom maker Durex found that Japan ranked dead last among 28 countries in the frequency of sex: The average Japanese had sex just 36 times a year. Hong Kong was next to last with 63. (Americans ranked No. 1 at 124 times a year.)

AERA reports that condom shipments are down 40% since 1993 (probably in part because Japan finally legalized birth-control pills in 1999) and love-hotel check-ins are off at least 20% over the past five years. What's more, an increasing number of those visiting love hotels aren't there for romance, AERA says; they've found that love hotels offer the cheapest access to karaoke machines and video games.

I won't get married!

Over tea in the sunlit lobby of the Akasaka Prince Hotel near the Imperial Palace in downtown Tokyo, and later over soba noodles and chicken yakatori at a nearby restaurant, Japanese writer and television personality Yoko Haruka describes the shortcomings of love and marriage Japanese-style. The husband works long hours and carouses into the night with his pals from work. The wife is expected to stay home, clean house and take care of kids. If the children behave badly, she's a bad mother. If her husband has an affair, she's a bad wife.

The author of Kekkon Shimasen (I Won't Get Married!), Haruka abandoned her own plans for marriage a decade ago when she realized her fianc・wanted her to give up her career and lead the traditional life of a Japanese housewife. She says Japanese men sometimes propose to women with lines like: ''I want you to cook miso soup for me the rest of my life.'' Not surprisingly, Japan's increasingly educated and well-traveled young women are not impressed.

''I'm not expecting men will change,'' Haruka says.

Her assistant, Miho Higuchi, who has kept silent throughout the conversation, suddenly blurts out: ''Never again!'' A mother of three, she divorced her husband because he refused to do anything to help her clean house and take care of the kids.

In fact, Japan's divorce rate rose steadily to 2.3 divorces for every 1,000 people in 2002 from 1.3 in 1990; it appears to have dropped a bit last year, partly because fewer people have been getting married. (The divorce rate in the USA was 4 per 1,000 people in 2002. )

As for men, they seem bewildered by the rising assertiveness of Japanese women.

''Men are getting weaker,'' says Takayuki Tokiwa, 23, a student at a Tokyo vocational college. ''Women don't have to rely on men anymore. They can live on their own.''

Masahito Wakauchi, 24, would seem to be a good catch. He has fashionably wavy hair and a good job with an advertising agency in Tokyo. Is he dating? Wakauchi shakes his head sadly.

''It's very, very difficult'' to meet women these days, he says.

Rather than risk rejection or summon the energy to maintain a modern relationship, many Japanese men simply pay for affection in the country's ubiquitous hostess bars and brothels.

Others prefer virtual women online to the real kind. ''They seem to find the relationship cumbersome. . . . You have to be attentive to your partner,'' says Kunio Kitamura, president of the Japan Family Planning Association's Family Planning Clinic. ''A quick way to get satisfaction is so-called cybersex.''

In fact, as many as a million young men -- mostly teenagers, but increasingly older men as well -- suffer from what is known here as hikikomori. It's a condition in which they seclude themselves in their rooms for weeks at a time (though the causes seem to go well beyond fear of women to traumatic experiences from the past, such as being bullied at school).

But most young Japanese seem to enjoy the single life. In 1973, a Japanese government survey found that the happiest people in the country were those over age 60. A similar survey 24 years later found that the happiest people were in their 20s, and twentysomething women were the happiest of all: 77.7% said they were content with their lives. Maybe Gloria Steinem was right: Women need men like fish need bicycles.

Many young Japanese women live carefree lives, staying at home with their parents, paying little if any rent, letting their mothers cook their meals, clean their rooms and do their laundry. Many work dead-end jobs that don't pay much but don't cause much stress and give them enough spending money to buy designer handbags, shoes, clothes and jewelry and enough time to take overseas holidays with their girlfriends.

Emerging from the Louis Vuitton shop on Namikibashi street in the heart of the Ginza shopping district, Tokyo secretary Yukiko Matsumoto, 38, says she's happily single and living at home with herparents.

''I don't want to change my rhythms,'' she says. ''Men expect women to stay home and take care of them.'' Not likely: Matsumoto travels abroad twice a year with her best friend and shopping companion, Terumi Yanagibashi, 38. They've already been to Hawaii together three times.

'Parasite singles'

A few years ago, Tokyo Gakugei University sociologist Masahiro Yamada coined the phrase ''parasite singles'' to describe young people who sponge off their parents and use their rent-free incomes to splurge on designer goodies, expensive dinners and trips abroad. It came from the 1997 Japanese horror movie Parasite Eve and applies to young, live-at-home men and women alike, though Yamada says the most carefree of the parasite singles tend to be women; the men are more serious about establishing careers and moving out on their own one day.

The phrase caught on. Some single women even printed up business cards defiantly describing themselves as ''parasite singles.''

In the past, it made sense for young people to leave home early. In the 1940s and 1950s, Japanese families were large. Staying at home meant sharing a room with brothers or sisters. But after decades of prosperity and falling birthrates, many young adults are pampered only children. Leaving home to marry means the drudgery of housework (especially for women) and the poverty of having to pay your own bills.

Sociologist Yamada says the single life in Japan isn't as blissful as it seems. For one thing, many young women still want to marry: They keep waiting for the perfect man -- a rich handsome guy who either helps with the housework or can afford to hire help. But Prince Charming never quite arrives. ''They hold on to the illusion they will find a man with a high income,'' Yamada says.

''The good men are all married,'' writer Junko Sakai says. ''Those left behind are all nerds or without jobs or violent or not nice-looking.''

And what happens to the parasite singles when their parents become infirm or die? Yamada says their future is grim. He cites one case study that he fears will be a model for the future. A woman lived with her parents until they died, inherited the family home but found that her job didn't pay enough now that her parents weren't around to foot the bill for groceries and other necessities. She ended up bankrupt after borrowing heavily in a futile effort to maintain her lifestyle.

The phenomenon of parasite singles also is creating a demographic nightmare. Japan now has about four working-age people to contribute to pension plans to support one of today's retirees. By the middle of the century, there will be just two workers for each retiree, which will create huge financial problems for the country.

Yamada says young men and women need to get more realistic. Men need to start helping with the housework and supporting their wives' careers. Women need to stop waiting for the flawless man who's never going to show up. ''They've got to compromise,'' he says.

But it's going to take a lot of convincing to get Japanese women to give up their independence. Sakai says Japanese society still thinks there's something wrong with unmarried women over the age of, say, 30. She calls spinsters like herself ''losing dogs.'' But fewer and fewer women care about tradition. ''I know I'm a losing dog,'' Sakai says, ''but I'm quite satisfied with my life.''
Sadness flies away on the wings of time.
-Jean de La Fontaine
User avatar
Ozintokyo
Intruder
Intruder
 
Posts: 1104
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:24 pm
Location: Loitering with intent

Postby Thanatos'_enbalmed_botfly » Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:09 am

''The good men are all married,'' writer Junko Sakai says. ''Those left behind are all nerds or without jobs or violent or not nice-looking.''
fuck u sakai, i am vfiolenyt ugly nerd, my fuckin' wife said so, hang on a tick, "WHERS MY FCUKIN MISO SWILL, WOMAN?"
Thanatos'_enbalmed_botfly
Asshat
Asshat
 
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 9:49 am
Location: Hokkaido

Postby barten » Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:55 am

Yeah, I wish good luck to all those girls who are waiting for something better. David Beckham is about to knock on the door, so don't mess around with lesser models. Summertime, anyone?
Ungaretti
uomo di pena
ti basta un
barten
Weaver of Tales
Weaver of Tales
 
Posts: 934
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:03 pm
Location: under the table

Postby Ozintokyo » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:00 am

:lol: Well, not all Japanese girls think that way though of course. My wife couldn't have been waitin around for Mr Perfect - that's fer sure!

But sadly there is lot in there that does sound about right.
Sadness flies away on the wings of time.
-Jean de La Fontaine
User avatar
Ozintokyo
Intruder
Intruder
 
Posts: 1104
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:24 pm
Location: Loitering with intent

Postby nigerian_nampa » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:31 am

The part about frequency of sex is interesting. From my point of view it seems that Japanese fuck like rabbits comparing to Americans, but I guess that's only in their little bit of free time. They're often so busy that they have to schedule you in once or twice a month.
nigerian_nampa
Eikaiwa Lifer
Eikaiwa Lifer
 
Posts: 414
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2003 2:07 am
Location: Namba

Postby W.Pep » Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:52 am

So they don't want to "stay at home and take care of them (men)" but they expect Mr. Perfect with his friend Mr. Bank Roll to come knocking on their door and sweep them off their feet?

"But it's going to take a lot of convincing to get Japanese women to give up their independence." I'm going to need some help with this one, which of the example women cited were independent? It looks to me like the women used as examples were hoping to trade in one form of dependence for another.
'I am Joe's Clenching Bowels.'
W.Pep
Eikaiwa Hero
Eikaiwa Hero
 
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:56 pm

Postby LeBlueBoy » Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:41 am

barten wrote:Yeah, I wish good luck to all those girls who are waiting for something better. David Beckham is about to knock on the door, so don't mess around with lesser models. Summertime, anyone?


I didn't get the idea that women were waiting around for Mr. Perfect, I got the idea that they're waiting for Mr. Emotionally Available.

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

W.Pep wrote:It looks to me like the women used as examples were hoping to trade in one form of dependence for another.


Or for a radical change in social roles and behavior. The article makes it sound like it's a nightmare for both sexes.

Besides, if you were a female in an entry level job, and your older male coworkers found it acceptable to ask how big your boyfriend's cock is (among other things), wouldn't you be uninterested in getting some hot salaryman action on a permenant basis? They're part of a global marketplace. The society is changing...whether people want to stick to the "old ways" of doing things or not.

Maybe if the government is that concerned about it, they might do something like enact legitimate sexual harassment laws and work to smooth out the elementary school mentality ("Boys do this...girls do that") that exists between the sexes.
Last edited by LeBlueBoy on Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
LeBlueBoy
Frustrated Realist
Frustrated Realist
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 5:24 am
Location: Osaka

Postby BakaMike » Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:42 am

Nice article Oz! A lot of the things that were metioned there resonated with many of my experiences here.

Personally, I think the men are more to blame than the women. Many don`t talk to them, take them out, or otherwise treat them as equals. I think this is one of the reasons that my experiences run more in line with what NN said. We just think differently, and in Japan that puts us one big step ahead of the competition! :shock:
NOVA IS GREAT!!!... ...FROM THE OUTSIDE!!
User avatar
BakaMike
Hopeless Drone
Hopeless Drone
 
Posts: 373
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:11 pm

Postby MacGyver » Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:38 am

"losing dogs"? That's gotta be one of the worst literal translations I've ever seen! Since when does anyone translate "makeinu" as "losing dog"? Buwahahaha.

But seriously, I don't blame singles for not wanting to live alone, or away from their parents. When you live at home and pay no or very little rent and work full time, you have a huge disposable income. Yet if you were to live alone, you experience a huge drop in your disposable income. OK, so this is pretty obvious. But if your life is comfortable and you have all that you need, why would you move out of home to live a life that's far less comfortable? The only thing that would be worth it to me is freedom. But as a lot of singles here are pretty free to do what they want when they want anyway, they probably aren't gaining a lot of freedom.

I know an Aussie guy married to a Japanese woman living in the centre of Tokyo with her parents. They met here a few years ago but didn't start dating until he home and she coincidentally went on a working holiday to Oz some time later. They got married but after about a year living in Oz, they decided to come back to Tokyo and live with her parents and save as much as they can to buy a home in Oz. He told me they would live her for about 2 years and go home. After the 2 years was up, he said they would stay another 5 years. Personally I'm not sure they will ever go back to Oz for 2 reasons: One, they live very comfortably in her parents home; they have about a 15 mat room with a double bed, sofa, skapa equipped TV, fridge and mini-bar. Its almost a fully self-contained environment. The shower/ bath and toilets are also on the second floor near them and are theirs to use exclusively. The only time they need to interact with the olds is if they go downstairs into the kitchen. And that's rare as the mother-in-law cooks for them. They also just bought a brand new car, and being in the centre of Tokyo, they can train to most places easily anyway. The second reason they probably stay is that he is under the thumb and what she says goes. And for her to give up a decent paying job and an easy lifestyle (she would have to cook and clean if they went back to Oz) and living with her parents to live in a foreign country will probably not happen any time soon.

I think city life here is probably harder than in most other countries, for various reasons, so as I say its not hard to see why people stay at home longer, and even forego marriage althogether for what they perceive to be an easier life.
"If all Japanese went to NOVA, the English level of the country would rise dramatically." - RevD on the state of English education in Japan.
MacGyver
9 miles of bad road
9 miles of bad road
 
Posts: 1280
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:22 am
Location: In the Stargate

Postby angryboy » Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:46 am

BakaMike wrote:.

Personally, I think the men are more to blame than the women. Many don`t talk to them, take them out, or otherwise treat them as equals. I think this is one of the reasons that my experiences run more in line with what NN said. We just think differently, and in Japan that puts us one big step ahead of the competition! :shock:


I hear you BM but do you think J women want that?
Can`t get my wife to do anything.I never asked her to cook and clean for me but I do insist she does her share.Leads to many a screaming match.
Staright after work she heads off to mummy`s for a feed while she sits on her ass watching TV.If I`m lucky I get the leftovers from their dinner.
If I`m very lucky the leftovers are hot and waiting for me.Housework?
PFFFT.Doesn`t even know where the vacume cleaner is kept or what days the rubbish goes out.I pay all the bills-I don`t mean just the money side of things either.I go out to the bank etc. and physically do it.SHE DOES SWEET FA.I am totally fed up.
User avatar
angryboy
Busdriver
Busdriver
 
Posts: 397
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:55 pm
Location: Abroad enroute to Shopping

Postby MacGyver » Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:52 am

angryboy wrote:I hear you BM but do you think J women want that?
Can`t get my wife to do anything.I never asked her to cook and clean for me but I do insist she does her share.Leads to many a screaming match.
Staright after work she heads off to mummy`s for a feed while she sits on her ass watching TV.If I`m lucky I get the leftovers from their dinner.
If I`m very lucky the leftovers are hot and waiting for me.Housework?
PFFFT.Doesn`t even know where the vacume cleaner is kept or what days the rubbish goes out.I pay all the bills-I don`t mean just the money side of things either.I go out to the bank etc. and physically do it.SHE DOES SWEET FA.I am totally fed up.


Yeah my ex-defacto (live in g/f) was exactly like that. She worked half as much as I did, I paid both the rent and bills, as with you both physically and monetarily paid, and yet she rarely did any housework. And when she did, she wanted me to do at least half of it. We split up for a different reason, but I think this led to us splitting up. I think this was the root problem that led to us splitting up.
"If all Japanese went to NOVA, the English level of the country would rise dramatically." - RevD on the state of English education in Japan.
MacGyver
9 miles of bad road
9 miles of bad road
 
Posts: 1280
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:22 am
Location: In the Stargate

Postby Thanatos'_enbalmed_botfly » Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:54 am

leave the "asianfriendfinder.com" website (THAT I HAVE HEARD OF FROM A VERY DISTANT FRIENF OF A FREINDS FIREINED AND I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT AT ALL, ZENZEN NOTHING) open on the computer for when she comes home. When she explodes, you start crying and say "Honey...I'm.. I'm just lonely..."
Thanatos'_enbalmed_botfly
Asshat
Asshat
 
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 9:49 am
Location: Hokkaido

Postby BakaMike » Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:08 pm

Now I know why you`re called Angryboy!!

I hope she fucks good!!

Just joking! Please don`t take offence, I`m not trying to disparage your wife. It was just supposed to be funny!

But seriously, I was generalizing. All people are different and no generalization can be applied to all verbatim. I was just trying to make a point. Many a time I have sat in a coffee shop and seen the boyfriend reading manga while his girlfriend just sits there, doing nothing! Another good one is where a couple walk in together, sit down and then without uttering a single word start a text messenging frenzy - I`m assuming to other people.

Communication between couples in Japan often seems to be sparse at best and non-existent at worst. Many J-women I have spoken to have said that they enjoy talking to foreigners because they prefer our style of communication. This is a big part of what I was talking about.

You say your wife doesn`t want to do anything, well that`s a tricky one. I don`t know anything about your relationship but maybe it`s because she doesn`t know how to. My girlfriend is not very skilled in the kitchen so I often plan the meal and then we cook together wih me acting as cooking manager and her as helper. Between us we share the work, I make sure it goes well and we end up with good food. :D

Sounds to me like your woman`s had it too easy and doesn`t want to change her lifestyle. You should probably talk to her about it. Open the all-important lines of communication!
NOVA IS GREAT!!!... ...FROM THE OUTSIDE!!
User avatar
BakaMike
Hopeless Drone
Hopeless Drone
 
Posts: 373
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:11 pm

Postby Thanatos'_enbalmed_botfly » Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:12 pm

So does this article indicate an improved capacity for critical thinking among young Japanese women? Crumbs, I think it does! Makes it appear that women are gaining in independence... yet all the ones I talk to still want to marry... comes back to security... and their insecurity... nah, forget my first sentence, people are still shit.
Thanatos'_enbalmed_botfly
Asshat
Asshat
 
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 9:49 am
Location: Hokkaido

Postby Ozintokyo » Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:28 pm

I think basically we need to blame the parents - what this country needs are more nasty parents. If they were abusive and nasty and started charging 'rent' as soon as the kids finished school - that sure would prompt a lot more kids to try to move out and survive on their own.

Sure as hell made me want to move out! :x
Sadness flies away on the wings of time.
-Jean de La Fontaine
User avatar
Ozintokyo
Intruder
Intruder
 
Posts: 1104
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:24 pm
Location: Loitering with intent

Postby angryboy » Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:45 pm

BakaMike wrote:I hope she fucks good


No offence taken.And NO, she does not fuck good.Actually she hardly fucks at all.
User avatar
angryboy
Busdriver
Busdriver
 
Posts: 397
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:55 pm
Location: Abroad enroute to Shopping

Postby Ozintokyo » Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:50 pm

Angryboy - I too can see why you might have taken that handle. Any reason why you cant dump her? Sorry for being a bit blunt here, but so far from what you've communicated, there aint a lot on the plus side! If there is and you don't wish to share, fine that's your business, but, damn! Good luck mate.
Sadness flies away on the wings of time.
-Jean de La Fontaine
User avatar
Ozintokyo
Intruder
Intruder
 
Posts: 1104
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:24 pm
Location: Loitering with intent

Postby BakaMike » Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:40 pm

Sorry AB, but I was thinking the same thing as OZ. I wasn`t going to say anything because, hey it`s none of my business! But I think Oz may be onto something here! I hope there`s something on the positive side you haven`t told us because if there isn`t you may wanna start looking at Thanto`s website - without leaving it on your PC when she walks in!
NOVA IS GREAT!!!... ...FROM THE OUTSIDE!!
User avatar
BakaMike
Hopeless Drone
Hopeless Drone
 
Posts: 373
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:11 pm

Postby Melodious_Thunk » Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:11 pm

MacGyver wrote:"losing dogs"? That's gotta be one of the worst literal translations I've ever seen! Since when does anyone translate "makeinu" as "losing dog"? Buwahahaha.


Beat me to it. Worst translation of anything I've seen in some time.

Just for another point on the graph, at my company most of the people are in their thirties and forties. Almost all of the men are married, while almost none of the women are. It has been that way over the years, even as personnel have come and gone, and based on the people I meet through work, I suspect this is typical of the situation in Tokyo generally. Why? My theory is that most women want to marry up or not at all. When you're already at or above average in terms of career and income, the number of possible partners above your own station is quite limited and only becomes more so as a woman gets older. Men have more options, at least men with a decent job, which brings us to Professor Yamada, with whom I agree entirely. The root causes of this are economic, so blaming either women or men (and I am not blaming women above, just making an observation) is pointless.

The women who have gotten used to having a pretty easy life at home with Mom and Dad (that is far from all of them -- my wife pretty much raised her younger brother and sister alone) may only be willing to give it up for a man who makes good money. It's not an entirely irrational reaction. But keeping a stay-at-home wife is expensive, and fewer and fewer men make enough money for that, plus they aren't going to be interested in a woman who just wants to get married so she can laze around the house.

Essentially we have (1) an increasing number of women who have a career, can support themselves, and aren't interested in making major compromises or sacrifices in order to get married; (2) an increasing number of women who are lazy and want a man to take care of them financially but either don't want to or don't know how to cook, clean, and do the other things that are expected; and (3) a shrinking number of men capable of supporting a stay-at-home wife.

In other words, there are fewer marriageable people on both sides.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."

Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Melodious_Thunk
 
Posts: 979
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:00 pm
Location: Deep in the shed

Postby Ozintokyo » Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:06 pm

DD - I second that. I have to say that I am one to actively practice that. I often smile at women and kids as I am walking along - if the kids smile back I will through in a wave for good measure. (if the women smile back - they get my phone number! :roll: er, just kidding, really honey I was just kidding, I wouldn't do that, you know I love you baby!! ;) :) )
Sadness flies away on the wings of time.
-Jean de La Fontaine
User avatar
Ozintokyo
Intruder
Intruder
 
Posts: 1104
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:24 pm
Location: Loitering with intent

Postby monkeypants » Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:13 pm

dogdays wrote:Sounds logical, MT.

Could we do something about all of us being a bit more sociable here in Tokyo? We don't all have to get married or date, but a few smiles here and there would be nice. People smile in Chicago, Seoul, and other places. What the hell happened here?

Yesterday I was at game center with my wife and her cousins who are young kids. While there a woman for no apparent reason smiled at me and my wife in that friendly small town sort of manner that I grew up with. I was a bit shocked as was my wife. We smiled back, but it was a first in Sakuragicho for us both. I hope it is a sign of good things to come. Perhaps we might even be victims of a "drive by smile" if we are really lucky.


Perhaps she was from out of town - way out of town - and didn't know any better.
monkeypants
Eikaiwa Lifer
Eikaiwa Lifer
 
Posts: 456
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 4:25 pm
Location: Sweet Fuck All, do you know?

Postby ShonaiBen » Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:05 pm

dogdays wrote:

Perhaps we might even be victims of a "drive by smile" if we are really lucky.


Never had a drive by smile.I usually get the drive by stare or the drive by double take.
If they make anything better than beer,I don't know what the hell it is....
ShonaiBen
Eikaiwa Hero
Eikaiwa Hero
 
Posts: 505
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 4:33 pm
Location: in the house

Postby duma » Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:28 pm

angryboy wrote:Can`t get my wife to do anything.I never asked her to cook and clean for me but I do insist she does her share.Leads to many a screaming match.
Staright after work she heads off to mummy`s for a feed while she sits on her ass watching TV.If I`m lucky I get the leftovers from their dinner.
If I`m very lucky the leftovers are hot and waiting for me.Housework?
PFFFT.Doesn`t even know where the vacume cleaner is kept or what days the rubbish goes out.I pay all the bills-I don`t mean just the money side of things either.I go out to the bank etc. and physically do it.SHE DOES SWEET FA.I am totally fed up.


That sucks big time. In a way it makes me glad I'm not married. I look after myself, and if anything doesn't get done then I've only got myself to blame. I think it's easier that way.

The idea of a woman who doesn't work or works part-time and spends the best part of the day watching daytime trash on TV or playing tennis with her friends then expects me to housework when I come home exhausted after working all day to pay the bills has got another thing coming. Now I don't regard being the breadwinner as the most important thing, rather just one way of contributing to overall well-being of the household. If my wife is at home during daylight hours then I'd expect her to do her share to contribute to the overall well-being of the household and if that means cooking and cleaning, then so be it.
User avatar
duma
Eikaiwa Hero
Eikaiwa Hero
 
Posts: 769
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 4:56 pm
Location: 東京の近く

Postby okazakiOm » Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:48 pm

Damn!

My wife is a doll. But I do ALL the shopping and cooking and laundry and 95% of the cleaning. But I do it willingly.

Why?

She fucking works 80 hours a week as a cardiac care nurse, all hours of the day and all days of the week. I work a quarter of her hours for 75% of her pay. When she finally finishes her contract at her crappy hospital and goes part time, things are gonna change around here!

Image
User avatar
okazakiOm
Frustrated Realist
Frustrated Realist
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 1:52 am
Location: 京都

Postby angryboy » Tue Jun 08, 2004 8:59 am

you area a gentleman among gentlemen.
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.
Albert Einstein
User avatar
angryboy
Busdriver
Busdriver
 
Posts: 397
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:55 pm
Location: Abroad enroute to Shopping

Postby jjaappaa » Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:44 am

For me. The way that I feel about sharing the responsibilties of house work relates to how I feel about the relationship in general. So if the relationship is sucking then we (my ex-girl) would argue over the small things like who folded the washing last and whose turn it is now. But if the relationship is going well then I don't think too much if I am doing a little more or a little less. The girl I am with now is great. Although we try to avoid the house chores it doesn't lead to arguements it leads to someone doing it willingly down the line. :) But unluckily she is going back to Japan next month :(
User avatar
jjaappaa
Clean & Sober
Clean & Sober
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:27 pm

Postby W.Pep » Tue Jun 08, 2004 4:09 pm

Arghhhh!!! Calgary, Calgary, Calgary...... Arghhhhhh!
'I am Joe's Clenching Bowels.'
W.Pep
Eikaiwa Hero
Eikaiwa Hero
 
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:56 pm

Postby okazakiOm » Tue Jun 08, 2004 9:24 pm

And, oh yes, Lord Stanley's Cup resides in west Florida for a year.

Gotta feel a bit for the poor people up in Canadia. :D
User avatar
okazakiOm
Frustrated Realist
Frustrated Realist
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 1:52 am
Location: 京都

Postby LeBlueBoy » Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:41 am

angryboy wrote:I hear you BM but do you think J women want that?
Can`t get my wife to do anything.I never asked her to cook and clean for me but I do insist she does her share.Leads to many a screaming match.
Staright after work she heads off to mummy`s for a feed while she sits on her ass watching TV.If I`m lucky I get the leftovers from their dinner.
If I`m very lucky the leftovers are hot and waiting for me.Housework?
PFFFT.Doesn`t even know where the vacume cleaner is kept or what days the rubbish goes out.I pay all the bills-I don`t mean just the money side of things either.I go out to the bank etc. and physically do it.SHE DOES SWEET FA.I am totally fed up.


You need to find a nice American girl. American women are obsessed with housework, unlike their Japanese counterparts. They will clean all day if you let them, because they crave cleaning as much as they crave housework.

Seriously, this is not a cultural problem. Some women do their share, some don't. The key is to make sure they'll do their share before you invite them to live with you. I had a girlfriend whose idea of clean was to move everything out in the open under the bed twice a month, and bleach anything that may have been touched by human hands. (disorganized and a germ phobia, what a combination.)
LeBlueBoy
Frustrated Realist
Frustrated Realist
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 5:24 am
Location: Osaka

Postby indoctrin8 » Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:10 am

interesting thread. ouch, MT, 2) makes you sound a bit victorian dad. not up to your usual standard.
its a problem on both sides, similar to the west in the 60's, with burning bras and all that. unfortunately japan has the added bonus of having the world's oldest people.
logans run and the eskimos had the right idea.

edited: for problem, please of course substitute "issue". im also not too happy with "and all that". i stand by my eskimo comment , tho.
Last edited by indoctrin8 on Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
here, chewing your tail is joy.
User avatar
indoctrin8
Hopeless Drone
Hopeless Drone
 
Posts: 351
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:22 pm
Location: up to my neck in shit

Next

Return to Japan Topics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron