Buying Property in Japan - comments/experiences/advice?

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Buying Property in Japan - comments/experiences/advice?

Postby Ozintokyo » Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:39 pm

This year sure does seem like a big spending one for me - I've started looking into buying a property here in Japan!! Holy fuckin shit!! :shock: Can't believe I'm gonna attempt it - I'm guessing the paperwork is gonna be hell, but that's besides the point.

I have started lookin about and started to ask questions, but it aint commin together just yet.

Issues/Questions so far

- wtf is the deal with units/mansions or whatever the fuck you want to call a place that is not a house. Seems like you buy the thing, and then you will still have fees to pay each month (seems to be between 20,000 to 50,000 a month on the places I've looked at so far)

- still on Units - seems like you are at risk of the ultimate land owner one day deciding he wants to put up new units, and you pretty much have no say in it - anyone else heard this? or about what happens at that point if that happens?

- Houses. You can buy a house and not the land!! WTF???? There was a property, a HOUSE, that I liked in Setagaya - it was really nice, but, I find that you don't actually have full title to the entire property, you only get the house, the land is owned by someone else. The story was some shit about the fact that you buy the property for 20 years - what fuckin bullocks is that - I pretty much tuned out after that. It's like what - 20 years of pre-paid-fuckin-rent or something. I felt like my hands 'd be pretty much handcuffed to my ankles with that one!

This is the crap so far and I haven't even started with bank loans and trying to investigate the 'extra' charges that are bound to be associated with such a venture.

Any comments observations or personal experiences with this kind of thing out there?
Last edited by Ozintokyo on Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby allblacks » Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:01 pm

Oz

I don't know what your Japanese is like but:

http://realestate.yahoo.co.jp/

There are some really cheap apartments and houses out there. Do a search if you can. Sorry that it is in Japanese.

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Postby Ozintokyo » Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:05 pm

AB - Actually, my Japanese is crap, but thanks for the link all the same - I will get the missus to have a bit of a poke around in there.

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Re: Buying Property in Japan - comments/experiences/advice?

Postby sos » Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:14 pm

Ozintokyo wrote: - wtf is the deal with units/mansions or whatever the fuck you want to call a place that is not a house. Seems like you buy the thing, and then you will still have fees to pay each month (seems to be between 20,000 to 50,000 a month on the places I've looked at so far)


I think that's the maintenance charge. You know incidentals like light bulbs in the hallways, etc. Still seems expensive

Houses. You can buy a house and not the land!!


I think it depends on the property. A friend bought a house here and the land was included with the house. So, maybe that property had separate ownership but it sounds strange to me. But then again, you Kanto-ers always sound strange to an "inakamono" like me!! :wink:
Last edited by sos on Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby DragonEagle » Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:53 pm

hey Oz,

Check out debito.org

He has a big write up on his trial and travails building a house here, bound to enlighten you.

I agree with you that condos are the biggest rip-off of all time. You pay at least $200,000 up front and then keep taking it in the ass for the rest of your life.

I know a guy who bought one, and he couldn't even choose anything in the whole place. So everyone in the whole friggin building had the same doors, wall paper, floors, etc. I was trying to figure out whether to laugh at him or feel sorry for the bastard. And most of those places are no bigger than a small to mid size house. The only advantage they usually have is location. But it's a hell of a price to pay for location.

I never heard of the buying the house only bit, run straight away from that one.

Let us know how you go, I for one am interested with an eye on my own future.
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Postby Bearcat » Fri Apr 16, 2004 7:55 pm

Buying a house in Japan I have always thought to be a bad investment. Reason being that as far as I am aware, house values depreciate instead of appreciate.

It would be smarter to buy a house back home for a price higher than the loan's per month cost (assuming you plan to get a loan) and bank the passive income for other investments or to support you slightly while you are here (ir paying part of your rent).

Or, buy a vacant plot of land in Japan, pave it over, and charge for parking spaces(if you get the property in an area that is viable for that). If you are paying say 10man a month in loan for the land, can rent out say 15 spaces at 1man a month... I think you can see the benefit.

Another option, is buying distressed properties from defaulted bank loans etc. There are alot of those auctioned off in Japan and the prices can be decent. I know one couple that buys defaults through auctions and live in the place and fix them up etc and sell them at their own pace and rinse/repeat. They've made a decent supplemental income doing that (they dont' have kids is why).
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Postby Drac » Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:04 pm

One post and one post only. This is serious stuff....

I've started looking into buying a property here in Japan!! Holy fuckin shit!!


Indeed.

- wtf is the deal with units/mansions or whatever the fuck you want to call a place that is not a house. Seems like you buy the thing, and then you will still have fees to pay each month (seems to be between 20,000 to 50,000 a month on the places I've looked at so far)


The bulk of the monthly fee is maintenance and the rebuilding account (hey, these things don't last forever). Maintenance (anything from exterior light electricity costs through to painting the bloody building). Then there is renewal when major work is done on the building or demolishing and rebuilding. At 20 to 50k you're looking at a hefty hit and I would smell something fishy. If it's an old place, the fee tends to be higher because the rebuild is coming. If it's a new place, then I'm wondering what the fuck. EITHER OLD OR NEW 50k is very big and could mean that they really serious or that this is a "rebuild" where there wasn't enough money and so they're bulking up accounts with adding a coupla extra mansions. Don't laugh, I saw one old place - looked great, but the monthly were high. Further questioning of the agent showed they wanted to repaint the entire buidling and had no money. If they don't have enough cash to repaint, what about the rebuilding savings (for this old place it was probably 10-20 years away)? Nada, nothing, zip. So I was looking at a financial black hole.

Depends on the situation, you're up for your share of the cost in any aparto complex, but you really should be aware that the finance issues are not in YOUR control, but by the COLLECTIVE. You should be able to extract the whys for high monthly costs from the agent - the ones I dealt with usually came clean if I asked.

- still on Units - seems like you are at risk of the ultimate land owner one day deciding he wants to put up new units, and you pretty much have no say in it - anyone else heard this? or about what happens at that point if that happens?


Most places I looked at had ownership by the aparto owners. Again, you are in the COLLECTIVE. If Tokyo goes whoof and the buidling falls down, then you will have ownership of a very part of the land.


- Houses. You can buy a house and not the land!! WTF???? There was a property, a HOUSE, that I liked in Setagaya - it was really nice, but, I find that you don't actually have full title to the entire property, you only get the house, the land is owned by someone else. The story was some shit about the fact that you buy the property for 20 years - what fuckin bullocks is that - I pretty much tuned out after that. It's like what - 20 years of pre-paid-fuckin-rent or something. I felt like my hands 'd be pretty much handcuffed to my ankles with that one!


Yep, they look great, but it's a long-term lease/rent deal. I think there's usually a bit at the end requiring demolition of the house at the end. You'll pick these up in some mag listings as it'll have a monthly rate xxx/月 20年 or something like that. Ask your wife to check the sites and listings and she can show you where the type of title is shown and the titles that are there.

This is the crap so far and I haven't even started with bank loans and trying to investigate the 'extra' charges that are bound to be associated with such a venture.


Bank loans - you'll need permanent residence or you'll need wifey to pick up the loan (oh she needs a job if she's getting the loan). Rates are nice now, but will probably go up. See what works for you and your income.

Extras - Agent's fees - dunno how much, why not ask.
Taxes - oh! Yes, one of the problems of owning shit is that the government wants a bit of a cut every year.
Of course these are around no matter if you buy an apartment or a house.
House issues:
space - land 50sqm is the minimum for some banks - makes sense a 40sqm really aint much
set back - a true bitch. You may see some listings that have セットバック - usually with a certain amount of xxsqm. This means when you rebuild you'll have to chop off that much land to fit new regulations (road access)
Two percentage figures you'll see - 50% 200% (or something). Means how much of the land can be built on (50% of 50SQM is 25SQM) and how much constructed space (indoor) you can have (200% of 50SQM is 100SQM). These are limits to what you can do if you rebuild. The second figure includes things like car parks. So if you get a three story 100SQM place with car park, it'll feel more like a 75SQM with stairs and car park space. Look at the apartment you're in, ask yourself how much more you want (within reason), what you may need for kids to know what you want or need.
Other things. To protect yourself with fucked up construction, you'll need some kind of inspection (don't know what it's called, but your wife should find it in a intro to real estate book at the bookshop). Some legal association offered to defend victims if you get given a dud and the construction company doesn't cooperate (expect 100k for the inspection thinggy - so use it only when you have decided and need to check the final things). You'll probably do well to have a check of the land's past uses - was it used for mercury smelting? - again get a good intro book. Saw one online process a longtime back that could do checks for a handful of man.
Access - seen one house which you could not rebuild because of bad access (side roads). Nice place, but just a big assfuck waiting to happen there.
Location - try to avoid reclaimed land. It's easy to spot as it is deadly flat like Odaiba. Why? Can you say liquification? End deal. Big quake hits. On reclaimed land you're left with a sloppy mud bog, on real land, you still have someplace to pictch a five-man tent while waiting for the Yaks to deliver the water.

There's a lot more there, but this is the Drac crash course in shit to avoid.

Cheers, now I'm going back into my hole.
Last edited by Drac on Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Shawn » Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:30 pm

This is just info I gleaned from here and there so take it with a grain of salt. If you can avoid it, DON'T BUY INTO STRATA (ever rising strata/maintenance fees and crazy tenants)! Get a real home on some land.

That said, I don't understand everything about house buying. AFAIK, the land and building are bought separately. You can own a home but not the land and vice versa. But, you can find deals where the house is old and is thrown into the deal for free. The scary thing is that this implies you buy a home which eventually depreciates to zero value over time.

I know several gaijin who own a home here so I'll ask around about their experiences.
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Postby allblacks » Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:49 pm

This thread is very interesting for me as wifey and I are looking into buying a house/apato in Osaka. We want something in southern Osaka. Most of the ones we look at are not that bad when it comes to the "maintenance" charges. Still 20-30000 yen for a couple of lightbulbs that everyone in the complex pays? FUCK THAT!
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Postby Ojii » Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:00 pm

Drac wrote:One post and one post only. . . .


Yeah, yeah. That's what they always say, Drac.

I've been OUT for a while, the longest streak for me from posting on LJ. I was sort of enjoying the freedom and added time. It was nothing planned, but it just happened. I stumble back to see if anything was up and WHAM -- this post.

I have an uncle who is a developer in Japan. His advice: if you buy a new house it will deappreciate in value, faster than a car. I can't recall the % of his estimate but I believe it was something of the sort of 50% of the value of the house dropping after only a year. To give you insight on just how these developers value your house on the market, well they don't. The house is not even part of the equation. Buyers are mainly interested in the land. Yes, there are exceptions but that's just how some professionals in the market look at it.

The construction cost of building a new house is very expensive in comparison to buying a 'used' house. A simple calculation of the land cost and construction cost will show you that a 'used' house that offers both is much less.

There are numerous issues involved in buying a house/land in Japan. I guess you could write a book and make some money. Drac had many good points in his posting, one of which was the % of building space you are allowed. If you purchase land, you will only be able to build a house within a certain size of that land. The inside capacity of the house may be allowed up to 150% of the land size. This is, of course, for two/three story homes. In addition, even if you were to build only a single story home, there would also be certain size limitations within proportion to the land size.

Land is everything. That's going to be your biggest cost. I guess if you lived very far out in the country, it could be different.
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Postby Ozintokyo » Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:31 am

Fucking hell - there seems a lot of good shit here - I will definately be back in the morning when the ol' grey matter is not floatin about in a sea of alcohol. Thanks for the input all.

More constructive repsonse to come tomorrow!! :) :cheers:
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Postby allblacks » Mon Apr 19, 2004 3:03 pm

Hi

So a gaijin decides to live in Japan and make money off his/her mother tongue. He/She starts off in a Gaijin house (or similar) and then moves to a rented apartment. 90% or more of these Gaijin will go home. Those that stay might not want line someone elses pockets etc.

Okay, so if I pay 50 000 yen/month (for eg.) and live there for 20 years how much have I contributed to SOC (Some other cunts) income? Take the same 50000 a month and use it to pay off a mortgage and the place is yours later on. You might not make money off of it when you sell, but WTF it is better than paying rent.

What do you think?

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Postby DragonEagle » Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:27 pm

I agree with you AB, but I think OGs point was just to not look at buying a house as an investment like people do in other countries that don't make their homes out of plaster board and single pane glass.
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Postby DragonEagle » Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:30 pm

Speaking of which, in your home countries, is it just the US or is double pane glass something that became standard at least 15 years ago.

Even when I was a kid in the late 70s, early 80s, we had 'storm windows' to put on in the winter. Basically we took off the screens and put on a big piece of glass.

Our house we built int he mid 80s had standard double panes.

While I'm on a rant here, let me tell you all exactly what else I have noticed about Japanese homes:

1. Is it just me, or does it make more sense to have 3 or four air conditioners rather than central heating/cooling? The temperature difference from room to room in summer/winter just kills me. Not physically, but mentally, because I know it doesn't have to be that way. Actually, I was out air con shopping the other day and saw a real small one that you can put in your toilet room, what a fucking joke!

2. Related to air cons, ir the way that exteriors of houses in Japan and interiors too, look like ZERO thought was given by architects, builders or buyers about how things will be used once the place is built.
exhibit 1: the pipes from the aircon fan outside are frickin surface wired to the exterior of the building rather than run throught the wall. I don't know why, but this REALLY gets on my nerves for some reason.

exhibit 2: Usually light switches and outlets are place exactly where you dont want them

I think that in many cases function is some kind of architectual afterthought here. I see very few home/building desing that make sense ergonomically/usage-wise.

Serious question: How does one become an architect in Japan? Does it require extensive training? Do the training just follow engineering priciples, standards, or does it include usage as well.

I know, I know, there are a few really famous Japanese architects today, but if you will notice, most of their famous building are NOT in Japan.

3. Everybody hangs their laundry outside, or at least their futons to air out. Why is it that I see soooo many impromptu hanging places rigged up, even at new homes. One reason may be that the hanging space takes up a lot of room and if space were designed simply for that, it wouldn't look too impressive and the local show home. Also, I'm from America where even homeless bums have dryers to go with their washers. I guess it's just a cultural thing, but to me, hang the laundry outside reminds me of poor people, but hanging the laundry in FRONT of the house is even worse. Again, just a cultural thing, I know that J-peeps don't give a rats ass about it. But have you ever seen people hanging futons over their driveway gates and putting zabuton on the fence to air them out? Its a bit silly.

4. Somebody who know more than me, please explain why homes here dont have basements. Is it the soft land? The place is crowded enough, but then people can't (or don't) have basements and attics, or garages for that matter.

5. Add your usually laundry list of complaints here....no insulation, noisy thin walls, etc. etc.

I think my dream is to become so wealthy that I can import a team of Canadian carpenters to come over and build me and American style house. Or maybe I'd like a house that looked traditionally Japanese on the outside, but was ultra modern inside.......just dreamin' here.....
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Postby Porkneck » Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:05 pm

Okay, so if I pay 50 000 yen/month (for eg.) and live there for 20 years how much have I contributed to SOC (Some other cunts) income? Take the same 50000 a month and use it to pay off a mortgage and the place is yours later on. You might not make money off of it when you sell, but WTF it is better than paying rent.


I'm in full agreement here. I plan to be in Japan for at least another eight to ten years, and that's why my wife and I decided to build a house. At first, however, we just wanted to buy a new condo. I had lived in dumps for years and years in Japan, and it was the wife's dream to move into a new place upon getting married. So in that respect, we agreed full on.

So, we went and looked at a bunch of not-yet-completed condo complexes around Osaka. Granted, we saw a lot of nice places, but for a 3ldk "mansion," the average was we were looking at paying about 240,000 a month (higher interest bank payment + one parking space + maintenance fees and other monthly fees). We both thought that that was a total rip-off, so we went with building a house, have since had absolutely no regrets, and learned that a foriegner in Japan, even with permanent residency, cannot own land in Japan.

...don't make their homes out of plaster board and single pane glass.


My house is not made out of plasterboard, but all the windows are single pane. We asked about having two or three paned windows for insulation, but we were told that it would cost about US$3,000 per window. We said no, but had them put in the runners for windwos like that. I think I'll be replacing, one at a time, the windows in my house. I'll just buy them outright and install them myself.....
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Postby Diogenes_in_Tokyo » Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:10 pm

First, I've gotta second everything Drac said.

Ozintokyo, another source of info may be to have the missus check out the local TV listings for more info about home inspections - feel free to watch if you want to practive the lingo a bit. I've forgotten the guy's name, but there is a building expert/inspector who goes out on TV to check on people's homes as part of 'Home Horror Stories' or something like that.

I just did a google search for 家 住宅 検査, so these sites are in Japanese, but....

There is an NPO that does inspections for housing defects:
http://www.iengo.ne.jp/m03_kekan.html
(they do checks at each major stage, from foundation to final completion)

There are also private firms/organizations:
http://www.ehouse.ne.jp/

Best of luck!
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Postby valve-bouncer » Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:12 pm

Just to answer some of your questions here DE.
1) Double pane glass- depends on your builder but it's usually not standard. For the builder we went with it was standard. One of the reasons we chose them
2) It costs more, a lot fucken more to have the aircon pipes inside the walls. We had it done on the walls where people can see easily.
As far as architects go, well ya gets what ya pays for. We paid quite a bit more to have an architect at our beck and call so our house is designed almost perfectly the way we like.
3) The Japanese have got this thing about sun dried clothes. We have a dryer though, used it today in fact. Cost us 55,000 or so.
4) Lots of countries build homes without basements or attics, Australia for one. It's a good point though, I guess it's all related to cost.
5) Insulation? Well again, ya get what ya pay for. Our house is extremely well insulated, the quality of workmanship is second to none.
When going with the builder we chose, my wife and I made a conscious decision to go with quality over quantity. I am extremely happy with my choice. My house is top notch.
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Postby Ozintokyo » Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:24 pm

Well, as I said in my rather drunken stuper from the other night, there is some good shit here, and true enough that is!! Well, I didn't get back as quick as I thought I would, my computer at home crapped itself on the weekend, so that is going to need some serious TLC (or a good throw against the wall - I haven't decided which yet!!)

DragonEagle & AB's - thanks for the links. My wife has had a bit of a poke around in the Yahoo site, and I have had a bit of a read through the building saga on Debito's site - quite interesting, and makes me glad I am not considering building something.

sos - yes, you are right that these extra monthly changes are for various incidentals and maintenance and also, as Drac mentioned, some for "the rebuilding account"!! :shock:

Bearcat - I have also been surprised by the fact that it seems that property does not really appreciate a great deal here in Japan. In fact it seems that only the land has a chance of appreciating, whilst the house itself would in fact depreciate!! Some interesting stats from Debito's site was that about 15% of Japans workforce are in the construction industry in some form or another!! Corrupt as hell and none too sturdy seems to be the opinion in general!!

As for "buying distressed properties from defaulted bank loans" - that sounds like potentially it could be very good, but I have no idea how we would know anything about them - if you have further information on this - I'd love to hear it.

So, why buy? As AB put it, better to be paying something off than paying rent. My rent is currently paid by employer, but like all good things I guess, it doesn't last forever. That particular little perk is due to expire in just over a year, so rather than contemplate having to start paying rent, I figure it's better to be paying something off. I expect that we will live in this place for a long time to come, or, if I get moved to another country, then I will try to rent it out rather than sell it.

So I guess I would consider this an investment that I could calculate the return not just from the appreciation of the property, but also considering saved rental on a similar property to the one I end up buying. I would of course have to weigh that up against the additional costs of getting in to the place like agents fees and taxes as well as whatever exit fees I might encounter in selling the property eventually. I think I will need to consider this before crossing the point of no return. It is an interesting propersition though.

What to buy? Well, I have decided that a house is the way to go - er, one WITH the land that is! I am also thinking second-hand house is the way to go. I don't really care too much that it isn't brand spanking new. What Ojii said is a bit scary, but doesn't really surprise me I guess.

Drac, Ojii - thanks for your contributions - some great advice there. I have now seen the percentage bits you were talking about - the 50% / 200% thing. I notice that there are even properties around now that they call 'illegal' properties because they have percentages that are greater than the current regulation. You can still buy these proerties, but, apparently banks will not give you as much financing on these properties as they would normal properties - the Real Estate agent told us that you will probably need about 40-50% deposit up front on any properties that are 'illegal'.

Also, whilst on the 'illegal' properties bit - if you want to do any renovations on them that you need to get council approval for - forget it - nothing will be approved other than a complete rebuild - to current legal specifications.

Oh, as for agents fees - seems to be about 3% + 60,000 (I think - I will need to check that again), so on a property for about 80,000,000, the agents fee was around 2,500,000. that's not exactly cheap! Of course this was the first round over the weekend and we have yet to put any prices under negotiation pressures.

I am hoping I wont have 'construction' problems given that I am looking for second hand properties?

The biggest problem I think I have comes from this thread - I had no idea that it is a requirement to become a permanent resident to be able to apply for finance here. I have not yet been to a bank to talk loans, so that might have to be attended to rather soon!! I have not yet been in Japan for 5 years (but I'm currently only 3 months short), so not sure how that whole process will go - but I think a visit to the bank to confirm will be required very soon.

Ah, just read DragonEagle's extra comment. I am not sure about the double pain - but - one of the NEW houses I looked at on the weekend only had the road between it and the train line. So, of course I closed all the doors and windows to see what it sounded like as a train went past. Not really that much different to how it sounded with the windows open!!! Needless to say, that place was quickly given the flick.

Airconditioning!! Ha!! :lol: I have to laugh at that - it just looks like shit in most places doesn't it!! Fucking air pipes and shit going everywhere. It doesn't bother me a great deal (fortunately!!), but I fully expect that whichever place I get, unless I re-wire the place myself, I am probably likely to have a shit load of cords and cables about the place due to great socket placement.

DragonEagle wrote:I think my dream is to become so wealthy that I can import a team of Canadian carpenters to come over and build me and American style house. Or maybe I'd like a house that looked traditionally Japanese on the outside, but was ultra modern inside.......just dreamin' here.....


As for getting American or Canadians over to build you a place - did you go and read the whole story on http://www.debito.org as you mentioned earlier? - he talks about this very thing. Very interesting to hear about all the trade barriers and taxes and governement requirements - you get an appreciation for how they can continue without much overseas competition.

Please add comments, criticisms and witicisms as you see fit!!

I will post back on here over the months as progress continues - I guess I will ensure that this thread will go on for some time until I either have a property, or give up in frustration!!
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Postby ex_drone » Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:33 pm

so we went with building a house, have since had absolutely no regrets, and learned that a foriegner in Japan, even with permanent residency, cannot own land in Japan.


Bull shit I have permanent residency in Japan and own my house plus the land under my name.

If you are thinking of building a house outside of Tokyo but within commuting distance consider buying a plot of land zoned for agriculture ( it's cheaper ) also larger just make sure it's within 50 meters of another building. after purchase apply to change it to building land through the prefectural government.

if you have PR you can get a 20 year loan through the national government called (koko) at next to nothing interest rates something like 2% fixed for 20 years.

OZ (freehold you own the land and house ) ( Leasehold you own the house but not the land ). The same kind of thing exists in OZ and NZ.

My wife and I built our house 10 years ago 40 tsubo house and 155 tsubo of land that we changed from agriculture to building. We have a good yard for the kids to run around in. Semi rural area and when the new line opens next year just over a half hour to Akihabara from the nearest station a 3 mins drive away.
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Postby allblacks » Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:20 pm

Ex drone

What is "Koko"? Kanji? Can you provide a link to it?

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Postby DragonEagle » Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:03 pm

We asked about having two or three paned windows for insulation, but we were told that it would cost about US$3,000 per window.


Holy Christ! I've been here for 5 fucking years, but I still get 'sticker shock' from time to time!

When going with the builder we chose, my wife and I made a conscious decision to go with quality over quantity. I am extremely happy with my choice. My house is top notch.


I'm glad you are happy with your house! Its a big decision and should be done without regrets!

As for getting American or Canadians over to build you a place - did you go and read the whole story on http://www.debito.org as you mentioned earlier? - he talks about this very thing. Very interesting to hear about all the trade barriers and taxes and governement requirements


Yeah, thats why I want to rich enough not to care.


Oh, as for agents fees - seems to be about 3% + 60,000 (I think - I will need to check that again), so on a property for about 80,000,000, the agents fee was around 2,500,000.


See first comment above.


If you are thinking of building a house outside of Tokyo but within commuting distance consider buying a plot of land zoned for agriculture ( it's cheaper ) also larger just make sure it's within 50 meters of another building. after purchase apply to change it to building land through the prefectural government.


Isn't there a big risk that you will be denied permission to change it over? I mean, obviously you were able to in your case, but sounds risky to me.
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Postby Ojii » Mon Apr 19, 2004 11:05 pm

Excellent advice from everyone.

Oz, one thing. If your wife doesn't work, she will need to get a job because since you don't have PR, you won't be able to take out a loan. Your wife WILL be able to get a loan, if she is employed.
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Postby sos » Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:32 am

In my friend's case, she bought a second hand house. She doesn't have PR, so she had pay it all in cash.

How did she manage? She was lucky. Though it was an old house, because it was in an inconvenient area (on a mountain) the price was lower. She managed to get a loan in the States (she has property there, using that was collateral).

She had looked at different places (even leasing one with an option to buy--but that place had sooo many problems). Her house now, doesn't. My friend lucked in also because the one of the owners couldn't pay off the loan installments...the bank took over...and somehow or another, the price for the house and land was reasonable. Plus, the previous owner had put in lots of gadgets (like a Jacuzzi and system kitchen) so the only "renovation" my friend did was ordering the drapes/carpets, etc.

Keep your eyes open and good luck!!
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Postby Porkneck » Tue Apr 20, 2004 3:59 pm

so we went with building a house, have since had absolutely no regrets, and learned that a foriegner in Japan, even with permanent residency, cannot own land in Japan.


Bull shit I have permanent residency in Japan and own my house plus the land under my name.


Whoa boy!!

What's true for you isn't necessarily true for all. That's what I was told by a Sumitomo banker and that's why I wrote it.

I'm curious, Drone, is your name the ONLY name on the title to the house and land or is your wife's/different JPN person's name also on it?
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Postby Ojii » Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:26 pm

Porkneck wrote:
so we went with building a house, have since had absolutely no regrets, and learned that a foriegner in Japan, even with permanent residency, cannot own land in Japan.


Bull shit I have permanent residency in Japan and own my house plus the land under my name.


Whoa boy!!

What's true for you isn't necessarily true for all. That's what I was told by a Sumitomo banker and that's why I wrote it.

I'm curious, Drone, is your name the ONLY name on the title to the house and land or is your wife's/different JPN person's name also on it?


I have heard that those with PR status have every right as a Japanese citizen with the exception of voting or running for political office. Ex-D might be telling everyone the plain truth. I find it odd if he couldn't own land/property. Just look at SoS's posting. Her friend paid cash and she OWNS property in Japan even withOUT PR status.
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Postby okazakiOm » Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:49 pm

That Sumitomo banker is either an ignorant cunt or trying to pull some nihonjinron shit on you.

There are NO restrictions on foreign ownership of land in Japan.

Go back and tell him so. :evil:
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Postby Porkneck » Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:00 pm

nihonjinron shit on you


I'm guessing that's what it is. Thanks for the info. :thumbsup:
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Postby Ojii » Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:00 pm

okazakiOm wrote:That Sumitomo banker is either an ignorant cunt or trying to pull some nihonjinron shit on you.

There are NO restrictions on foreign ownership of land in Japan.

Go back and tell him so. :evil:


It might have something to do with 遡eeping a foreigner out of the neighborhood.・ Who knows? Maybe that banker lives there and he doesn稚 want a gaijin moving in decreasing his land value.

羨 gaijin! There goes the neighborhood!!!
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Postby valve-bouncer » Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:13 pm

Porkneck wrote:
nihonjinron shit on you


I'm guessing that's what it is. Thanks for the info. :thumbsup:

I think the Japanese get so used to lying to save face that when they pass off this and other kinds of bullshit to foreigners they are surprised when we can see straight thru it. My wife feeds me these bullshit lines all the time and i call her on it. The builders for our house tried it, the bank tried, every cunt tries it on, you've just gotta call 'em on it. I dunno, maybe my bullshit detector is extra sensitive but I try not to let the fuckers get away with it, although there are the inevitable times when ya just have to grin and bear it despite it being a stinking pile of :poo:
Last edited by valve-bouncer on Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ojii » Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:31 pm

valve-bouncer wrote:I think the Japanese get so used to lying to save face that when they pass off this and other kinds of bullshit to foreigners they are surprised when we can see straight thru it.

. . .maybe my bullshit detector is extra sensitive but I try not to let the fuckers get away with it, although there are the inevitable times when ya just have to grin and bear it despite it being a stinking pile of :poo:


I would say rather than Lying, it's more of an inclination to say NO. If you are ever in a situation when you ask for permission to do something, they will nearly always say NO. I had a friend who reserved a judo room to practice boxing and another college club was using it at the same time withOUT permission. It was the drama club. Anyway, my friend(Japanese) politely asked if we could use the room too and the drama club said NO. It was funny. My friend is very big - Judo Champ - he picks up a sandbag and sets it up in the middle of the room where the drama club people were practicing and starts beating the sh :poo: t out of it. I will never forget the shock on their faces. :shock:
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