Gay Teachers

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Postby lounge_man » Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:05 am

Smurfette wrote:
Maybe I'm guilty of thumping over the head with anti thumping over the head behaviour?

No, you're not...I just wanted to make sure you weren't picking on vegos because I am one. I get sick of people, upon learning that I don't eat meat, trying to talk me out of it. I don't try to talk them out of their lifestyles!


We are in complete agreement then. It would give you the shits I expect. I can't understand why people would care about this either, only possible exception being that you weren't eating properly and they were looking out for you. All the vegos I know (bar 1) eat quite well, though.
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Re: Gay Teachers

Postby JayRamey » Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:29 pm

Smurfette wrote:Pedophiles take advantage of children, who are not emotionally and very often not physically ready for sexual relations or relationships. It often has negative psychological effects on the child. Homosexual acts are consensual acts between two adults who are mature and capable of making decisions about their sex life. Fine, not all adult homosexuals are as mature and capable as they could be, but neither are all heterosexuals.


You are making the argument about why one behavior should be illegal and why the other should not. However, you are not explaining why pedophilia is a disease that needs treatment and why general homosexuality is not a disease and does not need treatment.

Now you have made it clear that you do not think general homosexuality is abnormal. So you must agree that pedophilia is not abnormal behavior as well. I mean who is to say what is abnormal and what is not. I realize that a man that has sex with a 6 year old girl is not having sex that will lead to procreation. Don't lots of heterosexual couples have anal sex and oral sex, though? That doesn't lead to babies for them.

Accordingly, since homosexuals do not have a disease that needs urgent treatment, you must agree that pedophiles do not have a disease that needs urgent treatment.

Smurfette wrote:Who's to say what is and what isn't normal?


I realize that people like you will never make the admission that homosexuality is normal and homosexuality is abnormal. Even thought I believe you know it deep down, you will never admit it. However, I can easily look around in my world and easily see what is normal and abnormal. And further, I will say it.

Men and women that want to have sex (regular, anal, oral, hand-genital, breast-genital) with each other, pair off with each other, marry and have children are normal.

Two men or two women that want to have sex with each other (anal, oral, hand-genital), pair off with each other, marry and adopt children are abnormal.

Additionally, let痴 use the politically correct figure that says that 10% of the population is homosexual. I do not think that is accurate, but I will use this number for the sake of argument. If 90% of the population engages in one sexual behavior and only 10% engage in the opposite sexual behavior, it is very easy to see which one is the normal behavior and which is the abnormal behavior.

Furthermore, I would think it rather strange if my English teacher came into my classroom one day and announced that he had regular anal sex with his wife.
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Postby JayRamey » Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:40 pm

MacGyver wrote:Obviously pedophilia is an entirely different issue and has nothing to do with sexual preference.


WHY?!?!?!?! Why is pedophilia different and not a sexual preference??

It is a sexual preference. Pedophilia is the preference of certain men (almost always) that prefer to have sex with child that have not reached puberty. Just like homosexuals, they are born with this preference. They did not choose it...why would anyone choose that type of sexual preference, especially when it can lead to long terms in prison.

MacGyver wrote:Moreover, as Smurfette stated, children aren't in a emotional position to understand sex.


What does this have to do with determing what is normal and what is abnormal?

MacGyver wrote:what happens between 2 consenting adults behind closed doors is none of our business.


This must be a first. You made a statement that I entirely agree with. I do not think that homosexuality should be illegal. I am not going to go around peeking in bedroom windows to see what is going on because I believe it is my business.

However, if I was sitting in an a language class and the teacher announced that he was a homosexual, I would feel sickness and digust, and I would refuse to take lessons from that person in the future.
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Re: Gay Teachers

Postby JayRamey » Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:53 pm

BakaMike wrote:I think you`ll find that they were making fun of you because your ideas are rather outdated and came accross as bigoted.


Here we go again.

Who is to say what is and what is not outdated? Who is to say what is and is not bigoted?
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Postby W.Pep » Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:54 pm

Fuck you JayRamey, fuck you, fuck you ,fuck you ,fuck you! I don't give a shit how you feel about homosexuality it is my right to tell you how I feel about others and it is your bain to take it up the ass you sexist fucker!
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Re: Gay Teachers

Postby angryboy » Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:58 pm

JayRamey wrote:Now you have made it clear that you do not think general homosexuality is abnormal. So you must agree that pedophilia is not abnormal behavior as well. I mean who is to say what is abnormal and what is not. I realize that a man that has sex with a 6 year old girl is not having sex that will lead to procreation. Don't lots of heterosexual couples have anal sex and oral sex, though? That doesn't lead to babies for them.


You are an absolute fucken tossa mate.You cannot compare homosexuality and pedophilia.Having sex with kids is an evil,evil,fucken evil act and you can never condone it with any arguement.Two homos punching each others choccy starfish hurts no one.(Well except maybe the punchee).Argue with a valid point you moran.
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Re: Gay Teachers

Postby Melodious_Thunk » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:02 pm

JayRamey wrote:Accordingly, since homosexuals do not have a disease that needs urgent treatment, you must agree that pedophiles do not have a disease that needs urgent treatment.


And you're a lawyer? That's an absolutely shameful attempt to discredit someone else's position. Your old nemesis Reverend D. couldn't have done any better.

I'm curious as to what you think the "treatment" for homosexuals should be. By your own logic above, it's impossible to differentiate between homosexuality and pedophilia in any meaningful sense, so you yourself either (1) want to "treat" homosexuality as a disease, or (2) not "treat" pedophiles. Which is it? Either one is sickening.
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Postby Smurfette » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:02 pm

I know I said "Good night," already, but just one quick reply...I've really got to do some work.
JayRamey wrote:You are making the argument about why one behavior should be illegal and why the other should not. However, you are not explaining why pedophilia is a disease that needs treatment and why general homosexuality is not a disease and does not need treatment.

You池e right, but I wasn稚 the one who said that pedophilia is a disease. I値l try to be clearer next time. I would say that it is a disorder that needs treatment, because it HURTS CHILDREN. It hurts other people. Homosexual behavior between consenting adults does not hurt other people. Hurting other people is not normal behavior. People who hurt other people do need urgent treatment, and/or, depending on the severity, jail time. If there is a psychological reason why they hurt other people, then we might as well try to fix it before we release them back into society, if we so choose.

So you must agree that pedophilia is not abnormal behavior as well.

No, I can稚 agree with you here.

I realize that people like you will never make the admission that homosexuality is normal and homosexuality is abnormal.

People like me? Come on, Jay, I haven稚 trash-talked you, let痴 not make it personal.

Men and women that want to have sex (regular, anal, oral, hand-genital, breast-genital) with each other, pair off with each other, marry and have children are normal.

Two men or two women that want to have sex with each other (anal, oral, hand-genital), pair off with each other, marry and adopt children are abnormal.

Why?

Additionally, let痴 use the politically correct figure that says that 10% of the population is homosexual. I do not think that is accurate, but I will use this number for the sake of argument. If 90% of the population engages in one sexual behavior and only 10% engage in the opposite sexual behavior, it is very easy to see which one is the normal behavior and which is the abnormal behavior.

Again, I don稚 believe that just because most people do something, it is the only normal behavior. Most Americans never visit Japan in their lifetimes. Does that make you and me abnormal? No, it makes us uncommon.

Furthermore, I would think it rather strange if my English teacher came into my classroom one day and announced that he had regular anal sex with his wife.

Which is exactly why I said・r
Smurfette wrote:DIT, I don't think people are suggesting that a teacher announce his/her sexual orientation in class. I agree with Jay in that respect.
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Postby JayRamey » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:16 pm

valve-bouncer wrote:You made a flippant comment equating homosexuality to paedophilia (which I'm still waiting for you to substantiate).


Did I? First of all, I simply asked a question. I was not being flippant at all. I would like to know why "lots" of homosexuals would apply for and get into such a job. The original poster made a statement about "lots" of homosexuals being in the JET program. I simply asked why, and then asked could it be because of being put in a position of authority over young boys.

But let痴 further look at what Jay Ramey said:

JayRamey wrote:Lots? Really? Thank goodness I turned down the job offer from the JET program. I wonder what draws "lots" of them to the program? Being put in authority positions in schools with lots of young boys? )


Nowhere in there does the word pedophilia appear. And it can't be implied either. Pedophilia is the attraction to children that have not reached puberty. The overwhelming majority of JETs are placed in high school or junior high schools where the children have reached puberty.

However, for some reason there does seem to always be an association between pedophilia and homosexuality. I could point all of these out and write a 100 page thesis on it with proper footnotes. However, people who think about homosexuality in the way that you do will continue to hide your head in the sand and deny the obvious.

valve-bouncer wrote:You were hardly participating in a high minded debate so your attempt to play the "debate" card comes across as just a little priggish.


I don't think I ever said I was participating in a high minded debate. I simply responded to the original poster's question with my opinion about the issue. In response I get the comments about the 18th century or Taliban being wiped out like the politically correct usually respond when this topic, or any other politically incorrect stand I have taken in my lifetime, comes up.

I remember when I got my first computer. I used to debate the feminists all the time on local bulletin boards. When I took my anti-feminist stance, the responses always involved me being a Neanderthal, male chauvinist pig, outdated, a bigot, etc., etc., etc.

And don't someone go say, "and just what is wrong with feminists." I don't have time for this topic, not to mention a brand new one.
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Postby MacGyver » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:17 pm

JayRamey wrote:
MacGyver wrote:Obviously pedophilia is an entirely different issue and has nothing to do with sexual preference.


WHY?!?!?!?! Why is pedophilia different and not a sexual preference??

It is a sexual preference. Pedophilia is the preference of certain men (almost always) that prefer to have sex with child that have not reached puberty. Just like homosexuals, they are born with this preference. They did not choose it...why would anyone choose that type of sexual preference, especially when it can lead to long terms in prison.


Wow, it seems you know a lot more about pedophilia and homosexuality than most medical practioners, psychiatrists, et al. I didn't know that it had been proven that homosexuality (and I guess pedophilia) had been proven to be born traits.

JayRamey wrote:
MacGyver wrote:what happens between 2 consenting adults behind closed doors is none of our business.


This must be a first. You made a statement that I entirely agree with. I do not think that homosexuality should be illegal. I am not going to go around peeking in bedroom windows to see what is going on because I believe it is my business.


I'm glad we usually don't agree. I would hate to be put in the same category as a closed minded bigot such as yourself.

JayRamey wrote:However, if I was sitting in an a language class and the teacher announced that he was a homosexual, I would feel sickness and digust, and I would refuse to take lessons from that person in the future.


Yes, and I would refuse to be represented by a close minded bigot such as yourself if I ever need to go to court. Of course your beliefs have got nothing to do with your ability to debate a case, but then unlike you I can see this, and in fact I wouldn't judge you based on what you believe. Pity more people aren't like me. But then its your loss, not mine. That is you would intentionally choose not to learn (and potentially inhibit your learning) from a teacher whose sexual preferences you don't agree with. I didn't know people like you still existed. I'm speechless. But laughing my ass off. :shock: :rotfl: :huh:

And I didn't know we were discussing whether a teacher should or shouldn't reveal his or her sexual preferences. I thought our discussion was on a slightly different tangent. Apologies if I have misunderstood. But for the record no I don't think people should discuss their sexual preferences in class, whether they are hetrosexual, homosexual, or otherwise. But having said that, I don't think there are any hard and fast rules. Depending on the situation, it may be OK to state your sexual preferences.
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Postby W.Pep » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:19 pm

I posted my post ( sorry about the repetition there) because I was looking for an asshat title because Calgary lost. JayRamey looked like an easy target, after reading the above post though and looking more carefully at what Mr. Ramey has posted I don't know what to write. I'm a little disgusted and a lot pissed off.
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Postby JayRamey » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:23 pm

iwantmyrightsnow wrote:So how should someone respond to the question "What's your girlfriend's name?"


Why not respond the way that I do now to that same question: "I don't have a girlfriend." I don't have to say, "I don't have a girlfriend, and, oh by the way, I am a heterosexual."

It is not a lie for a homosexual to say, "I don't have a girlfriend."
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Postby JayRamey » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:33 pm

Smurfette wrote:He took it a step further, however, and compared homosexuality to pedophilia and used emotionally loaded words like "bugger" and "sodomize," which have negative connotations.


So? The overwhelming majority of people that are responding to this message thread want it believed that homosexuals are just pure and clean as the wind driven snow. I want to focus in on the behavior that these people engage in. Behavior that is sick and disgusting.

Smurfette wrote:So what if only 1 percent of the population does it? It doesn't make it abnormal, it makes it unpopular. I bet that percent or less of the population participates in synchronized swimming. While I would call that an unusual sport, or perhaps an unpopular sport, I would hardly call it "abnormal." Equating normal with the majority and abnormal with the minority doesn't seem right to me.


Come on...this is the best you can do? People that engage in synchronized swimming are not engaged in behavior that is OPPOSITE to the norm.
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Postby Ozintokyo » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:36 pm

I can understand and agree with a number of things that JayRamey has said.

The disposition towards homosexuality is not really that much difference than a disposition to pedophilia. Both are not normal. Now, before jumping down my throat here, let me say again, it is this disposition that is not really any different. I would say that both would either come from genes at birth, or are sub-consciously acquired tastes/desires through life, or perhaps a combination.

Certainly there is a huge difference in the practice of one over the other as with pedophilia of course it is not a case of sex between consenting adults, which of course makes pedophilia that much less acceptable than homosexuality.

Equally there are some arguments made that I do not agree with, such as the statement that anal sex between a man and woman is normal - it is not.

At this stage I should define what I mean by normal - I define it to mean "what nature intended".

From a philosophical perspective I do wonder at the increasingly more decadent behaviour that is becoming more acceptable (not that I am personally apposed mind you!) versus the ever increasing efforts of the government at censorship. Ah, anyway, not really something for this thread I guess!!

As for the disclosure and discussion of sexual preferences in a classroom environment, I think Smurfette summed that up very nicely.
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Postby JayRamey » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:36 pm

W.Pep wrote:Fuck you JayRamey, fuck you, fuck you ,fuck you ,fuck you! I don't give a shit how you feel about homosexuality it is my right to tell you how I feel about others and it is your bain to take it up the ass you sexist fucker!


Oh God! Here we go again! Name calling and profanities. Yes, with things like this being said to me, I am now certain that homosexuals and the people that support them are pure and clean as the wind driven snow.
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Re: Gay Teachers

Postby JayRamey » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:40 pm

angryboy wrote:You are an absolute fucken tossa mate.You cannot compare homosexuality and pedophilia.Having sex with kids is an evil,evil,fucken evil act and you can never condone it with any arguement.Two homos punching each others choccy starfish hurts no one.(Well except maybe the punchee).Argue with a valid point you moran.


Here we go again. Now I am a "fucken tossa mate" and a "moran."

By the way would you like to answer the question that I posed instead of the name calling and red herring. The question is why do pedophiles suffer from a disease that needs urgent treatment and homosexuals do not?
Last edited by JayRamey on Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gay Teachers

Postby Melodious_Thunk » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:43 pm

Melodious_Thunk wrote:By your own logic above, it's impossible to differentiate between homosexuality and pedophilia in any meaningful sense, so you yourself either (1) want to "treat" homosexuality as a disease, or (2) not "treat" pedophiles. Which is it? Either one is sickening.


You've replied to everything else (including the drunken rant of a despondent hockey fan whose team just lost the Stanley Cup); why not answer this one? You are, after all, the one who came up with this logical formulation, so it's only fair to see how it applies in your own case.
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Re: Gay Teachers

Postby angryboy » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:45 pm

JayRamey wrote:
By the way would you like to answer the question that I posed instead of the name calling and red herring.


No I would not so fuck off tossa.
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Re: Gay Teachers

Postby JayRamey » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:45 pm

Melodious_Thunk wrote:And you're a lawyer?


Yes.

Melodious_Thunk wrote:I'm curious as to what you think the "treatment" for homosexuals should be. By your own logic above, it's impossible to differentiate between homosexuality and pedophilia in any meaningful sense, so you yourself either (1) want to "treat" homosexuality as a disease, or (2) not "treat" pedophiles. Which is it? Either one is sickening


Would you like to answer the original question? Why is pedophilia a disease that needs urgent treatment, but homosexuality is not?
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Postby Ozintokyo » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:51 pm

JayRamey - I will answer your question for you - I don't disagree with you that both acts are not normal, but you need to differentiate the desire from the execution of that desire and the outcome and consequences of that action.

To engage in pedophilia of any kind is damaging in many ways to children that, by definition are not adult and therefore can not be said to understand the implications of their actions, and in regards pedophilia it is generally thought that in fact the participants are not willing in many circumstances, but that is semantics, the bottom line is that pedophilia is damaging to children, homosexuality is only damaging your sense of morality.
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Re: Gay Teachers

Postby Melodious_Thunk » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:52 pm

JayRamey wrote:Would you like to answer the original question?


No, I'd like you to answer mine. You saw fit to state that there is only one of two possibilities for a person's views on the subject and to apply that logical construct to someone else. I would like to know how it applies to you. Do you (1) believe that homosexuality is a "disease" (hope I don't catch it) to be treated, or (2) believe that pedophilia is NOT something to be treated?

I didn't create this construct; you did, and I would like to know where your argument fits in before offering up one of my own.
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Postby MacGyver » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:53 pm

JayRamey wrote:I am now certain that homosexuals and the people that support them are pure and clean as the wind driven snow.


You've said this, or something similar, several times now. I fail to see how homosexual acts make homosexuals dirty or unclean. Furthermore, no one is arguing that they are perfect or infallable. They are no cleaner or dirtier from hetrosexuals. I don't know why it disgusts you. Maybe you are a homophobe? And maybe, actually likely, that you have homosexual tendencies and don't know how to handle them and hence you are repulsed by homosexuals because you are repulsed by yourself. I think you should seek some professional help Jay. Sounds like you are in desperate need of it.
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Postby JayRamey » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:54 pm

MacGyver wrote:Wow, it seems you know a lot more about pedophilia and homosexuality than most medical practioners, psychiatrists, et al. I didn't know that it had been proven that homosexuality (and I guess pedophilia) had been proven to be born traits.


I simply parroted what the homosexual activist always tell us.

MacGyver wrote:I would hate to be put in the same category as a closed minded bigot such as yourself.


Oh, here we go with the name calling. I knew it wouldn't take you long.

MacGyver wrote:Yes, and I would refuse to be represented by a close minded bigot such as yourself if I ever need to go to court.


Oh no problem there. I would never let you into my office, let alone agree to do any work for you. Someone who starts the "close minded bigot" business when one refused to accept his same opinions is not one I could have any kind of working relationship with.
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Postby MacGyver » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:56 pm

Oz, homosexuality is not normal because.....?
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Postby Melodious_Thunk » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:59 pm

Jay, I haven't called you any names. I'm just hoping for an answer to my question regarding how your own logical construct applies to you. I get the sense that you're dodging the question.
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Postby Ozintokyo » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:59 pm

:lol: OK, I guess I should butt out (er, no pun intended! :) ), it seems like no-one was really interested in logical arguments, only those that can be further attacked and criticised!
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Postby JayRamey » Tue Jun 08, 2004 2:02 pm

Smurfette wrote:You池e right, but I wasn稚 the one who said that pedophilia is a disease. I値l try to be clearer next time. I would say that it is a disorder that needs treatment, because it HURTS CHILDREN. It hurts other people. Homosexual behavior between consenting adults does not hurt other people. Hurting other people is not normal behavior. People who hurt other people do need urgent treatment, and/or, depending on the severity, jail time.


Again, you are going outside of the brain and telling me the affects (or is it effects) of these sexual behaviors. What I want to know if the brain of a pedophile is a brain that has a disorder, then why is the brain of a homosexual not disordered.

Smurfette wrote:People like me? Come on, Jay, I haven稚 trash-talked you, let痴 not make it personal.


Huh? Trash talk? Personal? People like you defend and support homosexuality. People like me oppose homosexuality. Is that trash talk and getting personal?
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Postby naranjita » Tue Jun 08, 2004 2:02 pm

Ozintokyo makes a good point. I am sorry to JayRarney, but if you cannot see the moral difference between consenting sex between two adults and the abuse of a child too young to really know what is happening and unable/too scared to protest, then you really need to learn some moral/ethical reasoning skills.

However, as for the "it's not natural" argument there are thousands of examples of homosexual animals, which in my book makes it fairly natural.
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Postby lounge_man » Tue Jun 08, 2004 2:05 pm

want to focus in on the behavior that these people engage in. Behavior that is sick and disgusting.


C'mon... let's get to the root of this argument. Why do you think this is sick and disgusting. Ex_drone has given us a pretty good idea of why he doesn't like gays. What's your reason? Don't bring up the 'nature' argument, cos we both know that is bullshit. Heterosexual couples get involved in many things that nature didn't intend. Also, the 'normal' argument doesn't explain reactions of sickness and disgust. Being gay is considered acceptable in many cultures both present and past. From my experience, there are a few very simple reasons why people think like this:

1. Religious views. We can't argue about this, so if this is the case, then c'est la vie.
2. X gay person did something bad to you and you project this behaviour on to all gays.
3. Cultural conditioning (non religious).
4. Closet homosexuality.
5. Child abuse (relates to point 2).
6. Something else I'm missing?
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Postby Ozintokyo » Tue Jun 08, 2004 2:06 pm

MacGyver wrote:Oz, homosexuality is not normal because.....?


It is not normal because, according to my definition of 'normal', anal sex is not normal. Please do not construe this to mean not acceptable!

Unlike JamRamey, I am simply stating that it is not normal, but, I am not saying that it is sickening or vile and disgusting, just that it is not normal.
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